The Last of Us: Remastered

[DickDalewood]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Four more:

http://i.picpar.com/b8Z.jpg

http://i.picpar.com/c8Z.jpg

http://i.picpar.com/d8Z.jpg

http://i.picpar.com/e8Z.jpg

[The JareBear]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Some thoughts on the end:

Spoiler

Joel wasn't a hero, but he wasn't necessarily a madman. I, like some others have mentioned, didn't have much faith in the fireflies to "save humanity." Joel had found one little part of his own humanity he had lost. He was now a father figure to a girl around his daughter's age. Killing Ellie wasn't going to guarantee anything for humanity. For all we know she is unique and no matter what is done the mutation of the fungus would only be with her.

We also only see this small fraction of the overall world. Who knows what FEDRA is doing. They may quarantine people as they turn, who knows if they found someone else.

I also believe Ellie knows Joel is lying to her at the end, but in a way wants him to get the weight of humanity off of her shoulders the way he did.

She didn't seem like she knew she was going to have to sacrifice her life. She even had a couple lines about a future with Joel in the last chapter before the hospital.

I think the biggest mistake on the fireflies part was not letting Joel see Ellie. I'm not saying his viewpoint would have changed, but if she had a chance to tell him straight to his face "I want to sacrifice myself for the greater good" it would have made his decision much tougher.

I agree. More ending talk, and also a spoiler from the book "The Road." Just an advanced warning.

Spoiler

Had that been a part of the end, had you heard her say to Joel "this is what I want" this would have been an entirely different discussion, especially had he still decided to turn around at the end and pull her out the hospital.

I can't argue that was no guarantee of anything, there definitely wasn't. I guess the debate really comes down to what Ellie truly wanted, which I guess we don't know for sure. All we know is at the end she says she is "still waiting for my turn," and Marlene tells Joel "she wanted this." I always assumed that meant that Ellie had signed off on the sacrifice (her comments about a future with Joel were, I had assumed, before she was told that the surgery would kill her and she agreed to do it. I realize now I may have been wrong) but now I see where I may have made an incorrect inference there. Maybe Marlene is lying, since Ellie never says anything about the surgery or anything, she just asks "what happened?" It might signify that after she was resuscitated by the the FFs after drowning that she never really "woke up" and was put right to sleep and had no say in the matter.

Anyway, I guess we really don't know for sure. At the end of The Road, when I asserted that the ending was a good ending but two of my friends felt it was a bad ending and the family at end was evil. We debated it hard for awhile until finally I realized there wasn't a right answer. There's no for sure proof either way. You can infer different meanings based on the rest of the book.

The fact that the Fireflies didn't let Joel see Ellie first is suspicious, I mean what was the hurry? She's a healthy young kid, wasn't going anywhere. I didn't think about that at first.

Personally, I still believe thts Ellie is the only true hero. I think Joel and the FFs both were serving their own agenda at the end and I "fault" (using that term loosely) both of them equally. Or maybe I don't fault either of them, I'm not sure how to accurately describe my stance, I'm trying to say in either guilt or innocence they are equal, they both believed in what they were doing.

Another personal question that this discussion relies on is how much do you value a single life when weighed against the possibility of a cure. Again, I think Ellie and Ellie alone, not the FF or Joel, has the authority to make a call on that, and as already stated, we don't really know for sure.

Joel is a really good character and I hope we see him again in another game at some point. The comments you guys have made make me really see his transformation.


Here's a question for those that think Joel was right. If you don't fault Joel at all, do you fault the FFs? It seems to me that they believed in finding a cure just has much as Joel believed in saving Ellie. I'm not saying they were right, just saying, can you see where they were coming from or to you are they just the bad guys?

I really have enjoyed reading all of your opinions fellas, great stuff. Thanks for indulging me, wish I had been around for the ps3 version discussion.

[The JareBear]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

I just googled "Last of Us ending discussion" and have been going through as much as I can. Some more ending stuff:

Spoiler

http://www.ign.com/blogs/ezio513/2013/06/15/the-last-of-us-ending-explained-and-why-its-awesome

This guys take on it appealed to me. He and I seem to be somewhat aligned in our perception of the whole deal. Here are some excerpts I found most useful

So Ellie could potentially hold the cure to the Cordyceps virus, and with her sacrifice a vaccine could be made. The only problem is, the sacrifice. Joel didn't know about that part, so he goes on rage mode, kills a whole ton of Fireflies, saves(?) Ellie from the surgery and kills Marlene. When Ellie awakens in Joel's truck, he LIES to her

At first Joel despises Ellie and has a cold heart. Same with Ellie, "She's just cargo". It takes several hours for Joel to finally appreciate the things Ellie does......We meet David (who is Nolan North btw ) and he kidnaps her. Where Joel has an opportunity to just walk away, he tracks down David after some gruesome torture and finds Ellie after a decidedly scary scene as David starts to dominate Ellie, until she machete'd him in the face 20 times. This moment is when Joel and Ellie really begin that father-daughter bonding, as they've both risked their lives for each other

Basically assuming he wants Ellie to live with him and stay with him without really asking her. At this point Joel has strong feelings for Ellie (not in a weird pedo way, but as a daughter figure). However it feels like Ellie really isn't interested in that. She shrugs off when Joel asks her about guitars and swimming and she simply replies with "yeah" "cool" and she seems disinterested in it all, but she still feels connected to Joel, and doesn't want to be alone. And when Joel mentions just leaving, going back to Tommy's, it's Ellie who chooses to move on with the mission. Which is a key thing here, she understands what her life holds and how she can save humanity. She holds they key, and she obviously wants to be able to make that cure. At this point Joel could care less.

He no longer cares about the cure, he just wants Ellie, his "daughter" because he loves her. He lost Sarah, and at one point he says "I guess you never really escape your past", he's replacing Sarah with Ellie. Also his past as a savage killer, when he guts the jugular of a perfectly innocent doctor in the surgery room. (This whole sequence I felt uncomfortable, and that's not a bad thing. The fact Naughty Dog could make me feel that, is incredible, the brutal violence was very intense, and didn't feel gamey at all. And at the time I didn't understand Joel's intentions, I thought he was dooming mankind!) So perhaps Joel is trying to leave his life of mass killing and savagery? That could be disputed. But then comes the lying scene. As stated above, Joel knows Ellie would give herself up for the cure, and in that scene she talks bout when she wonders her time will come, almost as if she's ready to die. Joel lies because, if he didn't, Ellie would try to find a way to sacrifice herself and make the cure, thus Joel would lose her.

Though I do have one theory about the overall message of The Last of Us. And it's not "Love Conquers All" or something lame like that. I think it's that, in this destroyed, torn world, there really is no "good" side. No morals. You do what you need to, to survive. The Hunters, although they're outrageously cruel and terrible, are just trying to survive. David and his crew, although they ate...people, were surviving. I mean Joel seemed like a good guy for 90% of the game. But in that last Hospital sequence, it seemed like the world around him had sent him back to his roots. Murdering the group of people he's been seeking this entire time, and at that one instance, when he murdered that doctor, with the dude's own knife thing, it seemed to me like Joel had gone to a very, very dark place inside himself. But looking back, it was just instinct, why should he trust the Fireflies with Ellie?

Naughty Dog really did such an incredible job with this game in almost every single way possible.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

I just hope with whatever direction ND goes with the sequel,

Spoiler

being it following Ish (whom I have a hard time believing it was coincidence you come across that extensive of a story. It doesnt happen for anyone else) , More Joel and Ellie, or another story from someone elses perspective (my vote).

They keep the writing up to par and take their time.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

I agree. More ending talk, and also a spoiler from the book "The Road." Just an advanced warning.

Spoiler

Had that been a part of the end, had you heard her say to Joel "this is what I want" this would have been an entirely different discussion, especially had he still decided to turn around at the end and pull her out the hospital.

I can't argue that was no guarantee of anything, there definitely wasn't. I guess the debate really comes down to what Ellie truly wanted, which I guess we don't know for sure. All we know is at the end she says she is "still waiting for my turn," and Marlene tells Joel "she wanted this." I always assumed that meant that Ellie had signed off on the sacrifice (her comments about a future with Joel were, I had assumed, before she was told that the surgery would kill her and she agreed to do it. I realize now I may have been wrong) but now I see where I may have made an incorrect inference there. Maybe Marlene is lying, since Ellie never says anything about the surgery or anything, she just asks "what happened?" It might signify that after she was resuscitated by the the FFs after drowning that she never really "woke up" and was put right to sleep and had no say in the matter.

Anyway, I guess we really don't know for sure. At the end of The Road, when I asserted that the ending was a good ending but two of my friends felt it was a bad ending and the family at end was evil. We debated it hard for awhile until finally I realized there wasn't a right answer. There's no for sure proof either way. You can infer different meanings based on the rest of the book.

The fact that the Fireflies didn't let Joel see Ellie first is suspicious, I mean what was the hurry? She's a healthy young kid, wasn't going anywhere. I didn't think about that at first.

Personally, I still believe thts Ellie is the only true hero. I think Joel and the FFs both were serving their own agenda at the end and I "fault" (using that term loosely) both of them equally. Or maybe I don't fault either of them, I'm not sure how to accurately describe my stance, I'm trying to say in either guilt or innocence they are equal, they both believed in what they were doing.

Another personal question that this discussion relies on is how much do you value a single life when weighed against the possibility of a cure. Again, I think Ellie and Ellie alone, not the FF or Joel, has the authority to make a call on that, and as already stated, we don't really know for sure.

Joel is a really good character and I hope we see him again in another game at some point. The comments you guys have made make me really see his transformation.


Here's a question for those that think Joel was right. If you don't fault Joel at all, do you fault the FFs? It seems to me that they believed in finding a cure just has much as Joel believed in saving Ellie. I'm not saying they were right, just saying, can you see where they were coming from or to you are they just the bad guys?

I really have enjoyed reading all of your opinions fellas, great stuff. Thanks for indulging me, wish I had been around for the ps3 version discussion.

Regarding The Road

Spoiler

It never dawned on me that the family the boy meets at the end could be evil. Though, evil is pretty relative considering the circumstances of Earth at that time.

I was happy they had found the boy. Their intentions seemed pure. It was clear they had been following them for awhile, but I had assumed that was because it was pretty obvious The Man was sick.

Why do your friends think they may have been evil?

[franch1se]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Just a bunch of random pictures throughout various stages of the game...no spoilers

Spoiler

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Just finished Left Behind. Sad that my TLOU journey has come to an end.

[Burns11]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

I just googled "Last of Us ending discussion" and have been going through as much as I can. Some more ending stuff:

Spoiler

http://www.ign.com/blogs/ezio513/2013/06/15/the-last-of-us-ending-explained-and-why-its-awesome

This guys take on it appealed to me. He and I seem to be somewhat aligned in our perception of the whole deal. Here are some excerpts I found most useful

So Ellie could potentially hold the cure to the Cordyceps virus, and with her sacrifice a vaccine could be made. The only problem is, the sacrifice. Joel didn't know about that part, so he goes on rage mode, kills a whole ton of Fireflies, saves(?) Ellie from the surgery and kills Marlene. When Ellie awakens in Joel's truck, he LIES to her

At first Joel despises Ellie and has a cold heart. Same with Ellie, "She's just cargo". It takes several hours for Joel to finally appreciate the things Ellie does......We meet David (who is Nolan North btw ) and he kidnaps her. Where Joel has an opportunity to just walk away, he tracks down David after some gruesome torture and finds Ellie after a decidedly scary scene as David starts to dominate Ellie, until she machete'd him in the face 20 times. This moment is when Joel and Ellie really begin that father-daughter bonding, as they've both risked their lives for each other

Basically assuming he wants Ellie to live with him and stay with him without really asking her. At this point Joel has strong feelings for Ellie (not in a weird pedo way, but as a daughter figure). However it feels like Ellie really isn't interested in that. She shrugs off when Joel asks her about guitars and swimming and she simply replies with "yeah" "cool" and she seems disinterested in it all, but she still feels connected to Joel, and doesn't want to be alone. And when Joel mentions just leaving, going back to Tommy's, it's Ellie who chooses to move on with the mission. Which is a key thing here, she understands what her life holds and how she can save humanity. She holds they key, and she obviously wants to be able to make that cure. At this point Joel could care less.

He no longer cares about the cure, he just wants Ellie, his "daughter" because he loves her. He lost Sarah, and at one point he says "I guess you never really escape your past", he's replacing Sarah with Ellie. Also his past as a savage killer, when he guts the jugular of a perfectly innocent doctor in the surgery room. (This whole sequence I felt uncomfortable, and that's not a bad thing. The fact Naughty Dog could make me feel that, is incredible, the brutal violence was very intense, and didn't feel gamey at all. And at the time I didn't understand Joel's intentions, I thought he was dooming mankind!) So perhaps Joel is trying to leave his life of mass killing and savagery? That could be disputed. But then comes the lying scene. As stated above, Joel knows Ellie would give herself up for the cure, and in that scene she talks bout when she wonders her time will come, almost as if she's ready to die. Joel lies because, if he didn't, Ellie would try to find a way to sacrifice herself and make the cure, thus Joel would lose her.

Though I do have one theory about the overall message of The Last of Us. And it's not "Love Conquers All" or something lame like that. I think it's that, in this destroyed, torn world, there really is no "good" side. No morals. You do what you need to, to survive. The Hunters, although they're outrageously cruel and terrible, are just trying to survive. David and his crew, although they ate...people, were surviving. I mean Joel seemed like a good guy for 90% of the game. But in that last Hospital sequence, it seemed like the world around him had sent him back to his roots. Murdering the group of people he's been seeking this entire time, and at that one instance, when he murdered that doctor, with the dude's own knife thing, it seemed to me like Joel had gone to a very, very dark place inside himself. But looking back, it was just instinct, why should he trust the Fireflies with Ellie?

Naughty Dog really did such an incredible job with this game in almost every single way possible.

Endgame spoilers

Spoiler

On the subject of the Fireflies, at that point yes they were enemies. They were every bit the enemies FEDRA were, only barely less so than the cannibals and hunters were(the infected I don't view so much as enemies as much as indigenous wildlife, kind of like you wouldn't say the cougar was an enemy in Red Dead Redemption, it was just a cougar being a cougar).

FEDRA was a control force, do as they say and they were your friend. Defy them and you are an enemy. No discourse, your feelings or motivations don't matter, just shut up and do as you are told. At the end of the game you are attacked (knocked out) by the Fireflies, then told to shut up and do as they say or they will kill you. Doesn't matter what you feel or say, what they say is gospel. I would say at that point they were equals.

Hunters/cannibals were users, they were out to use people in whatever ways they wished, and were aggressively exerting that will onto anybody that came close enough. Marlene pretty much told you point blank, it doesn't matter what you feel we just used you to get Ellie to us. The only thing that makes the Fireflies slightly better here is that they weren't completely aggressive, they would have let Joel go.

On the subject of the Fireflies and the cure, I was starting to question the Fireflies after Tommy's tales of leaving them, then seriously questioned their ability to create a cure once we were in the university. There we saw completely failed experiments, and had recordings of doctors who just wanted to give up, just wanted to fast forward to the end and pop out a cure. When we got to Salt Lake City and the Fireflies' first instinct was to immediately vivisect Ellie, I was fairly appalled. As far as I could glean from the game, these were people who had never even physically examined Ellie in person, but were then going to immediately cut her brain open and kill her? No exam, no blood work, no biopsy, just kill her immediately? Sketchy as hell, that should be a last resort, not the first.

Ultimately, though, the fatal flaw of the Fireflies was not letting Joel say goodbye and not letting Ellie voluntarily agree to the procedure.

On the subject of Joel and the cure, Joel didn't come to "no longer care about the cure", Joel never even thought of a cure because Joel saw himself with no future. In many ways, Joel saw himself as someone who dies when Sarah did. Joel was only surviving to help his brother survive, and when Sam left, he switched to surviving to help Tess survive. When Ellie came along she was just cargo for him to smuggle, his motivation was still not the cure.

On Joel and Ellie, Joel didn't despise Ellie, he was just cold to her. Joel had been keeping people at arm's length likely out of self preservation, but also out of not wanting to feel the pain Sarah caused him. If he didn't let anybody in, he couldn't feel that pain again so he shut down. Even Tess, who he was closest to, and seemed to be more than just acquaintances, Joel seemed to treat as just a business partner. Ellie was cold to Joel for much the same reasons, only she's in the early stages of that hardening whereas Joel is already there and coming out. That's one of the reasons why Joel wanted Ellie to just go to Tommy's, he didn't want Ellie to become what he was.

[The JareBear]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Has there been talk of future DLC? So many things could be explored

[daniel77733]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

It's easily one of the top 3 or 4 best games I have ever played.

My first playthrough on hard was a lot different than the grounded playthrough. Almost like playing a different game. I loved both runs for different reasons.

I can't remember the last time I wanted to beat a game more than once. I started a Grounded+ playthrough (just at the very beginning of that) and can see myseld doing a fourth run after that to get all the trophies/challenges I have missed.

Easily 100+ hours of gameplay here

Nice. Glad you enjoyed the game. I played the game on Normal on PS3 but played it on Hard on PS4.

The only game that I played through more than once back to back was Resident Evil 4 for PlayStation 2. Normal, Professional and Professional again.

Enjoyed playing through The Last Of Us Remastered after playing it a year ago on PlayStation 3 but not to where I could play it again. I rarely play through games twice and playing through a game more than twice is even more rare as there's only one exception (listed above).

With that said, The Last Of Us Remastered is an excellent game and should be played through at least once.

[Gerg04]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Someone mentioned here a while back that theres a point in thr main story where Left Behind should be played, then go back to the story.

Is there an ideal time to play it or is it best to just finish the story then play thr DLC. I just began Fall as a reference.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Someone mentioned here a while back that theres a point in thr main story where Left Behind should be played, then go back to the story.

Is there an ideal time to play it or is it best to just finish the story then play thr DLC. I just began Fall as a reference.

Just finish the main story first. Not worth even explaining it to you because by so doing I would spoil it.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

There is a point where you can play Left Behind and it would seem seamless, however as was said it would be a spoiler, and not really necessary to do play and finish the main game.

I figured it is a good addition falling into the main narrarive which is why I said something way back initially.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

[Brandwin]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

I couldn't get into any games of MP yesterday afternoon, but last night I had no trouble at all.

[Phobia]

Re: The Last of Us: Remastered

Just finished game and what a ride, now to jump on Left Behind!!!

I feel for you Pappy, I see the end is near for me too and I'm trying to delay it