For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

[TMagic]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

Is there any reason not to have a split that includes chest/biceps and back/triceps, as long as you don't do them on back to back days? I know back/biceps and chest/triceps is more common, and that's what I've been doing for awhile, but I just feel like I don't hit my biceps and triceps hard enough doing them at the end of my back and chest workouts, and I've been stuck on the same weights for my biceps and triceps exercises for awhile. And doing arms first really seemed to take away from my chest and back exercises.

One big reason to not split your routine is that there has been a link found between amount of "work" (calculated as joules) a person does, and the amount of anabolic response the body has after a workout.

Basically the more "work" you do, the higher the anabolic response leading to more muscle protein synthesis. Researchers have found a work threshold that needs to be met to get the maximum amount of anabolic response. So to get that response, you have to cross that threshold. To reach that threshold, you have to do more "work" during your lifting.

When you split your routine, you will not be doing as much "work". This is due to the fact that with each subsequent set you do of an exercise, your muscle fatigues, and you will not do as much work as the previous set. So with each set, your work is dropping lower and lower.

So say your hitting your triceps. You're going to get as much work as you can do on your first set because they are fresh. But, every set after that, your rep count and total work will go down.

So if you're only hitting a couple body parts on a particular day, constantly hitting the same muscle over and over will limit how much work you can do.

Now look at it the other way. A full body workout. You get to hit a lot of muscles, and get the most out of them because you are not taxing them. And your're hitting large muscle groups, as well as small muscle groups.

Plus, exercises that involve more muscle groups will allow you to get a lot of work done in a single session. Exercises such as the Squat, Leg Press, Dead Lifts, Bench Press, etc....they all move a lot of weight over a great distance which increases the total amount of work your doing. So I've always felt that people really limit themselves especially when they don't do legs on a particular day because you can get so much work done just using your legs.

And when your just hitting say biceps, you're not doing much work to begin with. This is due to the fact that smaller muscles are not going to move as much weight (duh right?, lol). Not only that but, generally you're not moving the weight over a great distance. Force and distance are what determines how much work you are doing.

Compare it to something like a squat, and it becomes clear. You can lift say 250 and you move the weight, say, 2 feet. Thats going to give you a lot more work than a bicep curl where you could be lifting say 50 lbs and only moving it a distance of about a foot. If you did 10 reps on that squat, you just did 3,400 Kj of work in that one set. Where as if you did 10 reps on that bicep curl, you only did about 680 Kj of work in that one set. (That is if I did my math right. lol). So as you can see, how much more of an effect the squat has opposed to just a small muscle like your biceps.

But anyways, I hope that helps, made sense, and answers your question. Lol.

[TMagic]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

I kind of have a some what complex question. The answers might be lying around on some health/fitness sites, but when I've tried researching it.. I've encountered conflicting answers.

I'm wondering how some people can consume so many calories (I'm talking about 6,000 +)... yet still remain at a low % of body fat? Where do all those calories go? Is that only for people who are on a strict and intense body building work out regimen?

Basically is it possible to lose body fat, and gain muscle mass at the same time? I was always told you can only have it one way or the other... That's why people go through bulking phases where they add weight by increasing their caloric intake; and then cutting phases where they decrease their caloric intake, but then comes the question How can one lose body fat while keeping muscle tissue?

Right now I'm stuck trying to figure out what my caloric in take should be.. because I'm stuck around the 140 lb mark... not sure if I'm eating enough as it stands now for muscle growth... or if I need to eat more. For some reason I'm afraid of eating too much because I'm afraid I'll lose my abs and start to develop belly fat... but I want to develop more muscle tissue...

That is a tough question man...

I don't think that it's necessarily that you can't do both at the same time. It's just that when you are doing one thing, it makes the other a lot harder to accomplish.

As that only makes since right? You are trying to lose weight, but you are consuming a lot of calories. Or you are trying to gain weight, but you are not taking in many calories. Those wouldn't seem to make since if someone were to come to you and say that's what they are doing.

But, like I said, I don't think that it's impossible. It's just that you seriously limit how much you can lose fat while trying to gain muscle and vice versa because of what I just mentioned above.

To maximize you're muscle gain, you're going to have to consume a lot more cals, and that is going to lead to a little weight gain. And the same with weight loss, if you're trying to lose weight, you need to limit your caloric intake, which will make it hard to gain muscle.

That's why people, such as body builders have a bulking phase and a cutting phase. They will usually bulk up and gain as much muscle as possible, and at the expense of fat gain. Then cut back which will lead to fat loss.

It actually makes a lot of sense to do it that way when you think about it:

Once you've added all that muscle mass, your metabolism skyrockets (which is why they can eat so many cals like you said without gaining weight.). Now that you have a really high metabolism, you're body will burn fat at a very efficient clip. So you can lose a lot of the fat that you gained simply by cutting back on some calories.

But, at the same time, you should be working out, which will limit the amount of muscle you lose. If you JUST start cutting calories, you will atrophy fast as hell. But, if you continue hitting the weight room, you will somewhat attenuate this effect. You will still lose some muscle, but it won't be nearly as much if you just stopped lifting. So you will still have a lot of the muscle you gained, but yoo should have also shed a lot of the fat that you gained while bulking up.

That's why that method works the best.

[NYJets]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

I'm not saying a full body workout doesn't have it's place and can't be effective, but just about every person with a great physique I've talked to, in real life or online, uses some sort of a split most of the time. Most people seem to say a full body workout is good when your just starting out, or as something to mix it up from time to time.

And unless you have a day that's just biceps, or another smaller muscle like that, your going to be doing all those major exercises anyway, you just split them up, and that way you can mix in isolation exercises too.

[TMagic]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

I'm not saying a full body workout doesn't have it's place and can't be effective, but just about every person with a great physique I've talked to, in real life or online, uses some sort of a split most of the time. Most people seem to say a full body workout is good when your just starting out, or as something to mix it up from time to time.

And unless you have a day that's just biceps, or another smaller muscle like that, your going to be doing all those major exercises anyway, you just split them up, and that way you can mix in isolation exercises too.

And likewise, I'm not saying that it's bad to do splits. If you like doing splits, do them. I just gave you information on what I've learned.

My texts, study's I've researched, and my professors all put me on the side of a more rounded program. One of my professors was ranked 6th in the nation when he was body building, and won Mr. Florida. He said he would do full body routines and didn't use splits as much.

He also would bring up many examples of his body building buddies who would do the same thing. So people hear different things and do different things. From what I've read and learned in school, I just can't see splits being the MOST effective means of exercising.

[TMagic]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

I have a professor who works currently with the Jags brought up a pretty funny story.

He said when he was younger, he went to the gym where the top body builder in the world worked out. He remembers a friend of his buying a magazine that had this body builder on the cover which included "his" workout and trying to do everything that the magazine had down in the program.

After using it for a short while, he didn't feel he was getting results. So he went to see the body builder in the gym, and showed and asked him what he thought of the program he was using because he wasn't really seeing results. The guy looked at it, and responded saying something about how it's a bad program. That thats way too much to do on one body part and that the program will lead to overtraining. That it's the reason he's not getting results. Pretty much saying it was a horrible program. He then asked my professor's friend where he got that from, and his friend said "From you. It was in the magazine with you on the cover. It's your program."

The guy told the friend that that isn't what he does at all. And the only thing he had to do for the magazine was take pictures for the spread and for the cover. That's all he did. That's all he was paid for. He had nothing to do with the program.

Another professor (the body builder) brought up a similar story.

He said that one of his buddies who was one of the top body builders in the world was asked to be the main story for one of those muscle magazines. He worked out with the guy all the time when he was competing.

He said that he only did Leg extensions and squats for his legs. That's it. When the issue came out he looked through it and it had some workouts in there that he's never seen the guy do before. Especially in the leg section which had a ton of leg exercises that "he" did. And overall it just looked like a bad program. My professor went to him and showed the guy the magazine, and the guy said something about that he just gets paid to take the pictures. That he doesn't have a say of what goes into the magazine.

I have another professor outside of those two, who stated that research shows that people want something along the lines of 4-7 pages for the cover story of a magazine. That's what sells. So that's what magazines put in there. He said that a lot of top guys won't be able to come close to that 4-7 pages with the workouts that they ACTUALLY do. So they just fill it up with extra exercises to satisfy the customer and get those extra pages.

Moral of the story. Don't follow everything that a magazine or website has in it. A lot of it is not good information. They have to cater to what people want to see and read in magazines, and they have to cater to supplement companies and whoever else pays them to advertise in their magazines. A lot of people or your friends get their information from magazines/websites that get their information from magazines/websites. So there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Not only that, but a lot of people go with old thoughts about what's the best way for whatever. They get passed on from next person to the next, and from generation to generation. Things like "No pain, no gain." That you have to really tear the muscle down to gain muscle. That was the thought back in the day. But, research shows that that is not really the case.

You got to do your own research and not just go with what you've heard or read on some website.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

Question for those doing the P90X...


For the Ab Ripper portion of the workout, do you need any equipment. I'm not really interested in doing the whole P90X, but with the good reviews that the Ab Ripper is getting, I would like to use it for the ab portion of my workouts. But I don't have any resistant bands so I'm' just wondering if I need to pick some up before trying this out...

Nope. No equipment needed at all for Ab Ripper. Just you and a floor and initially a pretty high tolerence of pain

Also, the work out is only about 15 minutes long. I think the video is 17 minutes, but there is about 2 minutes of cool down and stretching at the end. 11 excersices and "24 reps each" though the 24 isn't actually accurate. Sometimes it's 12, sometimes it's 50.

You wouldn't think 15 minutes could be so bad, but it is...at least initially.

[Feared]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

Just got back from a 30 minute bike ride through my neighborhood... I think maybe 2 bike riding sessions through out the week would be a good idea, a long with my work out plan. Instead of dedicated cardio sessions.

Even though I want to gain some mass, I figure maybe the riding sessions could help me trim off any excess cals. (i'm already at a low body fat) and also strengthen my legs up a bit more... I really haven't realized how weak my legs have gotten after being at a mostly inactive job for the last 2 years, and not really doing any cardio.

[FlyingFinn]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

Just got back from a 30 minute bike ride through my neighborhood... I think maybe 2 bike riding sessions through out the week would be a good idea, a long with my work out plan. Instead of dedicated cardio sessions.

Even though I want to gain some mass, I figure maybe the riding sessions could help me trim off any excess cals. (i'm already at a low body fat) and also strengthen my legs up a bit more... I really haven't realized how weak my legs have gotten after being at a mostly inactive job for the last 2 years, and not really doing any cardio.

Other then for its heart benefits, there is no real reason to do cardio if you are trying to gain lean muscle mass. You can gain lean muscle if you have the correct calorie intake, the correct macro-nutrient ratios, and good weightlifting schedule.

[Feared]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

Other then for its heart benefits, there is no real reason to do cardio if you are trying to gain lean muscle mass. You can gain lean muscle if you have the correct calorie intake, the correct macro-nutrient ratios, and good weightlifting schedule.

Oh yeah I've established that earlier, I just want to do it to stay at a low body fat. For some reason I feel if I'm just eating, and lifting I think I'm going to gain fat... even though that might not be the case.

and for my dad's birthday last night we went to an Italian restaurant, and I had a slice of Chocolate Cheese Cake for dessert so I felt compelled to do some active exercise..

[Dispatch]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

Oh yeah I've established that earlier, I just want to do it to stay at a low body fat. For some reason I feel if I'm just eating, and lifting I think I'm going to gain fat... even though that might not be the case.

and for my dad's birthday last night we went to an Italian restaurant, and I had a slice of Chocolate Cheese Cake for dessert so I felt compelled to do some active exercise..

You need to get rid of this mind set. You don't need to be eating 6,000+ calories to gain weight. I would say eat about 500 extra calories a day and over a few months you will definitely start to gain some muscle mass.

I think you're worried about getting a big stomach, but thats not going to happen over night. Just make sure that you are eating clean and you should see some good results.

Ever since I started "bulking" I can actually see my abs better because my muscles are getting bigger and the fat that I have is covering a bigger area.

[Matt10]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

1st day of P90x - me and my two other buddies.
-- Chest and back -- killed us, literally my buddy (who had steak and ice-cream late last night) puked his guts out aftewards.

-- Ab Ripper X -- solid ab workout, I have a tailbone cyst so it was kind of tough to be on my backside the majority of the time. will have to figure out a different way.

So, the first day - was awesome. We started at 6 AM, going to be doing this for the next 89 days. I actually went to bed before midnight last night, that alone was kinda cool.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

1st day of P90x - me and my two other buddies.
-- Chest and back -- killed us, literally my buddy (who had steak and ice-cream late last night) puked his guts out aftewards.

-- Ab Ripper X -- solid ab workout, I have a tailbone cyst so it was kind of tough to be on my backside the majority of the time. will have to figure out a different way.

So, the first day - was awesome. We started at 6 AM, going to be doing this for the next 89 days. I actually went to bed before midnight last night, that alone was kinda cool.

Good job man...after 4 weeks down, I still think that first day was the worst. You just don't know what to expect going into it and it kind of shocks you.

I start phase 2 on Wednesday, which means I get to try some new workouts, so I may have a change of heart as I hear that chest, tri's and shoulders is pretty brutal.

[colkilla]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

once you guys finish the entire 90 day cycle, look into p90x+. there are 5 videos and they are all combination type stuff, like upper body plus is one of the workouts. needless to say they step up the intensity even more. i like them tho, they are quick, like 40 minutes a piece at the most and you combine movements so you feel even more cooked at the end...

[Trevytrev11]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

once you guys finish the entire 90 day cycle, look into p90x+. there are 5 videos and they are all combination type stuff, like upper body plus is one of the workouts. needless to say they step up the intensity even more. i like them tho, they are quick, like 40 minutes a piece at the most and you combine movements so you feel even more cooked at the end...

Yeah, I've got those as well...haven't even looked at them yet. Do you reccomend any time off in between or would you suggest going right into P90X+?

[Matt10]

Re: For all you guys wanting to gain muscle, size, etc.

P90x day 2 - plyometrics.

kicked our ***, especially after softball last night (double header) - and I have soccer tonight

What I love the most about this program is that the 1-hour workout just whizzes bye. Tony Horton does an excellent job in keeping things moving, i love how the exercises are split up - keeps things interesting.

I highly recommend doing this with a friend or friends - we motivated eachother like hell today.

6 Am wake up calls is the best thing ever.