The Official Poker Thread

[Brando70]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

No way you fold kings preflop in that situation. I would have shoved when it got to me the first time instead of minraised. Many times to see AK, QQ, or even JJ/AQ in that situation in a typical home game.

I'd consider it with deeper stacks, but after the 800 raise you only have 15BB left. Not the time to toss kings.

I just found this thread. Glad to see some gamers talking about poker -- I am a pretty avid player. I play mostly cheap ($5-10) tourneys online and live tourneys when I get the chance.

Anyway, I just wanted to reiterate that you should almost never, ever lay down KK pre-flop. I think the chances of someone getting AA and KK at a ten-handed table is about 1 in 25. You have a better chance of screwing yourself out of a hand by overthinking "does he have Aces" than by calling. There are only two times I would consider laying the Kings down:

1) You're absolutely sure someone has AA, and I mean a clear tell like John Malkovich listening to an Oreo cookie. That's unlikely to happen against anyone remotely decent but someone may have an Aces tell.

2) You're on the bubble in a multi-way pot. Let's say you're in fifth and four places pay. Three players have moved all-in and you have KK. You're actually better off laying the Kings down because you'll be less than 50% to win, whereas you're 100% to finish in the money if someone busts, especially if two guys get knocked out.

[dkgojackets]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

2) You're on the bubble in a multi-way pot. Let's say you're in fifth and four places pay. Three players have moved all-in and you have KK. You're actually better off laying the Kings down because you'll be less than 50% to win, whereas you're 100% to finish in the money if someone busts, especially if two guys get knocked out.

Maybe. This usually only holds true in satellite situations where every place pays the same though since it is better EV wise to get the chip advantage and have a better chance at first place money.

In normal games, I've learned that the fourth raise all-in preflop is nearly always aces, and the limp re-raise is AA, KK, or possibly AKs, but usually AA.

[Brando70]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Admittedly, I'm not sure I would lay down KK there. It's just that against three people, I don't think you're more than 40% to win pre-flop. A lot of it would depend on the stack sizes. If I'm really short, and even tripling will still have me short, I'll probably fold and hope for a better money finish. I play to win, but there's nothing worse than bubbling, especially when you go out with a great starting hand. If winning would vault me to the chip lead, I would probably call.

The bottom line is: don't lay your KK down pre-flop!

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

I thouhgt about laying it down, but im sitting tere saying outloud after he raised, that id be a fool to lay this hand down. I absolutely cant. I was sitting there a minute debating it. In the same situation I would call again. I posted it because of the wild swings within the hand.

[GSW]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Im sorry, but i would have layed that down.

its all hindsight, but obviously after he raised all in it was either AA or AK.. id rather just keep my stack and push forward rather then lose to an Ace on the flop.

[dkgojackets]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Folding kings pre-flop is not how to play winning poker. For every time you happen to be right, you're up against AK, QQ, or even worse hands 90% of the time in typical games. Only when very deepstacked and facing the fourth raise or a limp-shove should it be considered.

[Brando70]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Folding kings pre-flop is not how to play winning poker. For every time you happen to be right, you're up against AK, QQ, or even worse hands 90% of the time in typical games. Only when very deepstacked and facing the fourth raise or a limp-shove should it be considered.

Yep, exactly. While I would certainly not be surprised to see that all-in come from AA, you will cost yourself money in the long run by folding Kings because you suspect aces. If somebody puts me all-in pre-flop with Kings and has Aces, so be it. That happens rarely enough that I'll take that chance.

Think about that hand. A raise of 2x the big blind, two calls, and then MM's raise to 800, which is still only 4x the big blind. That action doesn't scream out super strong hands, so it would not be unusual to see a reraise all-in with QQ or AK, someone trying to either grab the pot or get it down to a heads-up situation. Calling was the right move. It just sucks he hit the King only to see a third Ace on the river.

[dkgojackets]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Update on Absolute soulreading/rigged/superuser

Taken from 2+2 poster Josem.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...0&fpart=1&vc=1

"Cliff's Notes: The Absolute Poker cheaters are part of an inside job - either a rogue employee (bad apple) or rogue company (bad orchard).


Long Version:
1) During a tournament played by cheater 'Potripper,' the person who ended up coming second ("Marco") thought he was cheated. He emailed Absolute, and they sent him a hand history file - an XLS file.

2) Marco opened up this file, it seemed all gibberish to him, and he didn't think anything of it.

3) First Absolute Poker scandal blow up - PT screenshots, etc. Graphical representation here: http://www.absolutepokercheats.com/vpipvbb.jpg

4) Fortnight passes

5) In passing discussion, Marco mentions he has this file. He shares it with a few people, including N 80 50 24(pokerdb.com maintainer, maker of The Poker Film, part owner of Bluff Media) who analyses what is in this file

6) Nat (N 80 50 24) & 2p2 poster Snagglepuss discover that this file is a complete hand history for the tournament - showing every table, and all hole cards of every player.

Hand histories here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...page=0&fpart=1
View Video here (free registration required)


7) Big excitement over #6

8) In further analysis, Nat + Snagglepuss discovers that this file contains IP addresses and user details (including email addresses) of people observing the table

9) In #8, they discover user #363 is observing PotRipper's table the whole time

10) At the start of the tournament, for the two hands that user #363 is not observing the table, Potripper folds preflop. He doesn't fold another hand pre-flop for 20minutes, when he open-folds with KK held by a player behind him.

11) The IP address recorded for user #363 tracks out to be a user who uses email on an Absolute Poker server hosted by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (More info here) "

Last part links to

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12520697

[MizzouBravesFan]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Folding kings pre-flop is not how to play winning poker. For every time you happen to be right, you're up against AK, QQ, or even worse hands 90% of the time in typical games. Only when very deepstacked and facing the fourth raise or a limp-shove should it be considered.

I've only folded them once pre-flop and that was against an ultra tight rock...I mean it was obvious to me at least that the guy had pocket Aces. I'm talking like this guy had only played like 5 hands up to this point and every time he had quality cards and he pushed hard.

UTG limps, middle position makes a substantial raise, the rock is on the button and looks down and only takes like two seconds and shoves everything in...SB folds, I'm in the BB and look down to find KK. I kinda glanced over at him, he looked so confident it was scary lol. I finally mucked them, UTG does the same with his hand, the initial raiser pretty much insta-calls with two Jacks...sure enough the rock turns over two black Aces.

It was an extremely tough lay down even though I knew the guy had a hand...I thought maybe he had QQ or maybe even AK suited...in reality though, I think I knew all along that he had Aces, I was just looking for a scenario in which I could call lol.

Post flop is a different story haha, mucked KK several times...only once before though.

[Village Idiot]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

This is my most recent memorable hand:

I have AKs. I raise from under the gun. Some douche re-raises me from the button. Everyone else folds. I go all-in. He calls.

Idiot has A6o.

Flop comes 7, 3, 10.

Turn is an 8.

Needless to say, I'm like, don't you dare put a ******* 9 up there. Give him a six, but I'm not losing this hand because this idiot sucks a straight off his worthless six.

River comes 9.

My tournament is over.

[Village Idiot]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Oh, and regarding the KK hand above, the first mistake was the re-raise of 800. A raise in that spot against three other players should be 3x the inital raise, if not 4x. Doubling the inital raise only gives the other players decent to good pot odds to call it anyway. Not to mention, your weak raise may have been what prompted the all-in in the first place. (Were you trying to look weak? If so, then the all-in is exactly what you want to happen!) Second, no way do you fold there - ever.

[NoSkillz50]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

I turn 18 on the 26th so I'm gona enter a tournament at Morongo. Its a $160 buy-in and my friends also gona enter. I'm pretty confident that I can do well. I've played a lot of poker over the last couple of years with friends. Have any of you guys done any live tourneys?

[funky_chicken]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

I turn 18 on the 26th so I'm gona enter a tournament at Morongo. Its a $160 buy-in and my friends also gona enter. I'm pretty confident that I can do well. I've played a lot of poker over the last couple of years with friends. Have any of you guys done any live tourneys?

You have to be 21 to gamble in a casino my friend.

[NoSkillz50]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

You have to be 21 to gamble in a casino my friend.

You can be 18 at Indian casinos.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: The Official Poker Thread

Oh, and regarding the KK hand above, the first mistake was the re-raise of 800. A raise in that spot against three other players should be 3x the inital raise, if not 4x. Doubling the inital raise only gives the other players decent to good pot odds to call it anyway. Not to mention, your weak raise may have been what prompted the all-in in the first place. (Were you trying to look weak? If so, then the all-in is exactly what you want to happen!) Second, no way do you fold there - ever.

This hand was a while ago. But IIRC I was trying to a ppear semi strong. I wanted a caller. I didnt want to just have everyone fold. as i said i only posted the hand because of the wild swings. believe me I am not folding kings preflop.

I had another nice hand with a nice trap set. I was down AC at Showboat 1-2 no limit with about $150 sitting in front of me. Get dealt 8-8. I have I am 3rd to act with 1 call ahead of me. I raise to 7. get 3 calls including the inital caller. Flop comes 8-10-3. first guy checks. I bet 5 make it look like i hit a pair or something. Next guy raises to 30. next guy calls. checker folds. at this point i dont want anyone to suck out and hit a straight so i push all in. the first 30 bet thinks long. and decides to fold. as soon as he folded the guy who initally called the 30 calles. he flips over 8-10. I flip my trips. Turn was K river was 4. I held on. and made a nice chunk of change on that hand.