15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

[mgoblue]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

True, without reasonable suspicion I would have no right to detain that car or person inside. Let's say someone called 911 though and stated they saw your friends car swerving, failing to maintain a lane, and hit a curb. Once I found him, even if parked, I would then have enough RS to stop him. I could conduct a field sobriety test, or use a portable breath test, which would give me probable cause to believe he committed the crime DUI-Liquor, thus leading to arrest. In the state of Nevada even if the car isn't mobile I have enough if he has the keys and is sitting in the car with access to a public roadway.

The fact that is was thrown out sounds ok to me. Cops are humans, humans make mistakes. That is why the lawyers and judges can be so tough, so that the proof is on the state, i.e. officer. Maybe the officer was a rogue "Training Day" cop out to bust people for no reason. More than likely though he was just a regular guy working his shift trying to make an arrest or two before he goes home to his wife and kids, or in my case my girlfriend and my 360.

Oh, totally...I kinda wish my friend was thrown in jail sometimes lol (don't talk to him anymore, he wasn't that close a friend). I think the cop just got unlucky (or didn't realize) and didn't go in there with enough knowledge. Was interesting talking to my friend about it, he really was planning on going to jail and freaking out. Just a view of the court system I don't normally see (real life isn't Law and Order on TV)

I'm on the cops side, it's so hard for you guys to know exactly what to do or how to act in any situation. You always have people coming down on you hard for any mistake.

[chance]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

After watching this the pepper spray was uncalled for once he hit her which I'm not so sure was the best thing to do since I've never seen a officer punch anybody while trying to cuff them but my main point is after he hit her she is laid out face first on the hood for about 5 good secs while he was trying to get the spray out and he could of easily cuffed her then.

[jim416]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Exactly, that's why I've been saying most cops aren't idiots otherwise these would be all over the place everyday.

I believe it's a tough job. But there are idiots in any profession and hard decisions that have to be made quickly and when dealing with a variety of people and situations a lot of different things can happen. But that's part of being a police, and it's why I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. But I've seen far too many police who escalate situations which could have been avoided and they use things like tasers, pepper spray, etc without reason.

Well, not sure of the escalation part. Technically, I tell you to put your hands behind your back and you move away, get into a fighting posture, tell me to go fark myself, or even move away and want an explanation and passively resist I may give you one more chance to comply, but I'm not going to do a song and dance with you. I've already formed probable cause to hook you up (arrest you) and that's that.

You must realize that many cops have much more command presence than some. I was able to talk people into the handcuffs, believe it or not, but some officers will, for example, go for the pepper spray. When someone verbally resists you, technically, your next course of action is not to verbally spar with them, but to then physically take them into custody.

I'm not sure of the taser policies as I've been retired for six years, we didn't have tasers on our department, but the taser definitely has it's place and I've seen a lot of videos and can't say I can form an informed opinion on whether it's use was justified or not.

[mgoblue]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

After watching this the pepper spray was uncalled for once he hit her which I'm not so sure was the best thing to do since I've never seen a officer punch anybody while trying to cuff them but my main point is after he hit her she is laid out face first on the hood for about 5 good secs while he was trying to get the spray out and he could of easily cuffed her then.

I think the punch was just the officer lashing back because he just got bit hard. More a instinctual "stop biting me" thing than a planned "I'm gonna punch this kid" punch.

[mgoblue]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Side chat:

Matt, I bet you see some messed up stuff in Vegas!

[jim416]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

After watching this the pepper spray was uncalled for once he hit her which I'm not so sure was the best thing to do since I've never seen a officer punch anybody while trying to cuff them but my main point is after he hit her she is laid out face first on the hood for about 5 good secs while he was trying to get the spray out and he could of easily cuffed her then.

Technically there is nothing wrong with slapping/hit a person in the face when arresting them when they are resisting. Technically, but people see that and immediately think there's some type of abuse, but if he uses his asp (used to be a night stick), then that's okay.

He used what was available to him. Geez, he could have violently thrown her to the pavement, came down on her back with his knee, and gone from there. I think he showed as much restraint as he could. But, you've got the camera to answer to, short videos that can be taken out of context, people who weren't here making judgement. Makes it very hard.

[chance]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Technically there is nothing wrong with slapping/hit a person in the face when arresting them when they are resisting. Technically, but people see that and immediately think there's some type of abuse, but if he uses his asp (used to be a night stick), then that's okay.

He used what was available to him. Geez, he could have violently thrown her to the pavement, came down on her back with his knee, and gone from there. I think he showed as much restraint as he could. But, you've got the camera to answer to, short videos that can be taken out of context, people who weren't here making judgement. Makes it very hard.

Ok I gave him that I never said that was wrong I just said I've never seen it before. My only problem was the pepper spray since he could have cuffed her when she was laid out on the hood.

[McLite]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Side chat:

Matt, I bet you see some messed up stuff in Vegas!

Yes I do...but probably no more than any other big city. No matter where you go there are evil people who murder, rape, molest, abuse, and take advantage of other humans no matter what the setting/situation.

Probably the only thing I deal more as a patrol officer than most cities is the pimps/hookers/johns that are constant in and around the Strip. Combine that with an adult fantasy land themed strip of land where everyone is from somewhere else and they think they can get drunk and act like an idiot without repercussions.

As far as the punch for biting, I believe the Supreme Court ruled that there is a period of a few seconds after something like that happens where reactions are just pure instinct. So if you get bit or spit upon what happens is just pure reactionary, with no malice aforethought behind it. I got bit once. I grabbed a guy on his right shoulder with my left hand, and he turned and bit my left thumb as hard as he could...thank God I was wearing my gloves. Long story short I broke his nose with my right hand. It was pure reactionary, like sticking your hand on a hot stove. I was completely justified and even got to court as a victim on that one.

Would a 5 second clip of video looked bad for me, probably...depends on the angle. Would a video of the whole 15 minute encounter though silence any critics though...yes.

[grunt]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

I have a ton of respect for law enforcement officers. I couldn't do the job. I have a degree in Criminal Justice with a focus on Law Enforcement. I applied to few places in Connecticut and the New York Housing Authority. I realize that I didn't have the emotional make up to be an officer. I would have been burnt out in a few years. I am glad that I made that decision.

It good to hear from actual officers because they give a very balance take on the video. Keep up the good work guys.

Peace

[jim416]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Ok I gave him that I never said that was wrong I just said I've never seen it before. My only problem was the pepper spray since he could have cuffed her when she was laid out on the hood.

Chances, I think that's where the problem came up. He was trying to cuff her. If it was me I would have been thinking, especially since it's a girl, "I don't want to hurt this girl", and that makes cuffing her even harder. Handling girls/women is really, really tough. You can't search them, you can sort of pat them down, using the back of your hand, but can't touch certain areas. They could be scratching the crap out of you and there's just something inherent in males (most anyways) that don't want to physically hurt a girl, regardless of what she's doing to him.

It's tough.

[ODogg]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Well given that, I'd like to think I'd know more about it than you. I have never been a police officer, but I did spend 4 years in the service. I never had to detain a person in a real world situation (did participate in the diffusion of a small riot in S. Korea though, no one got punched either but to be fair, there were no 15 year old girls around) but I have had plenty of training in preparation for it, enough to know at least, it wouldn't have taken punch to the face of a little girl to get her under control.

Lol, and that in no way is meant to be taken as I know as much about it as a regular cop, but I'm not talking down telling people how their civvy minds work and such. I have no idea what you guys have done for work or experienced unless, like in this case, you tell me.

Not really, police and military are not the same thing, what I studied was police work. You probably are going by what you know just as much as I am by what I know.

Ah, so it was just prejudice, that makes more sense to me.

How is me thinking a girl looks is not sexually attractive to me because she seems skanky prejudiced? LoL...get real man.

And you're using it to somehow support you reasoning for calling her one. So it might as well be your's.

She looked like a skank to me, I would have to know her personal sexual habits, or at least have reference to them to call her a slut. So hopefully we're perfectly clear on that aspect now.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

revoke his man card please. lol whats gonna happen when you have to take down a resistant body builder type? thats literally DEATH for him if he has to resort to that. a punch to the face is one of the worst things you can see. use a baton on a kneecap or karate chop their shoulder. do SOMETHING.

[trobinson97]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

How is me thinking a girl looks is not sexually attractive to me because she seems skanky prejudiced? LoL...get real man.

OK, I see you're still fighting. Ok, let's take a look at what skank means, from a more credible source than Wikipedia of course:

slang : a person and especially a woman of low or sleazy character

One who is disgustingly foul or filthy and often considered sexually promiscuous. Used especially of a woman or girl.

OK, that's out of the way. Which applies to you? Did you find her of low or sleazy character? If so, why? Is she disgustingly foul or filthy, or perhaps sexually promiscuous in your mind? If so, why? Also, you didn't say she was skanky, but that she specifically, was a skank. How Odogg know this? What would make ODogg come to this highly ridiculous claim?

Well, anyway, let's take a look at the word prejudice:

preconceived judgment or opinion...an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge...an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

None of that applies to you in this situation though, right?:

I came to that conclusion because of not only her gaunt and shabby looking physical appearance and taste in clothes but her behavior as well.

A wise man (I think it was Uchiha Itachi ) once said, "You shouldn't judge others by their appearances and your preconceptions." Of course, you are free to do so, at the risk of coming off extremely ignorant.

Not really

Not really what? And no, no one said the military and the police force were the exact same thing, but what is the military but the nation's police force? We got a lot of the same training as our MP's (Military Police fyi) so what are you saying not really to? That I don't understand policing as much as you? You already said you've never been a policeman, so you were former military or something? I can understand you liking to think you understand more, but just because you like to think that doesn't mean you do.

[Heelfan71]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

Too many civilians suffer from police brutality.

Not all situations are the same, there is such thing as a "Use of force continuum."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality#Incidence

and that's the only time we hear about cops. The other 99% of the time they do their jobs correctly. Bottom line is when a cop tells you to put your hands behind your back, you do it. It's called respect. Obviously this girl didn't have any respect for authority. She wasn't raised right. The fact that she's 15 and dressed like a hoochie after curfew only confirms the fact she wasn't raised right.

[Scottdau]

Re: 15 yr old girl punched then pepper sprayed, justified.

I think it was wrong and he didn't need to do that, but it happens and if you resist being arrested then you should realize that can happen to you. It is like at work if the kids fight they get pepper sprayed. Sometimes the kids even think twice now before they fight. It is not easy being a cop, so I understand why he did it, but it doesn't change the fact that is was wrong.