Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

[Double Eights]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

It would help if we actually opened some new domestic refineries.

If I'm not mistaken, we haven't opened a refinery in the United States in nearly 30 years.

[TheGamingChef]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

What adverse environmental impact? I hear this same BS line all the time, but no one can explain. Please try.

Well put simply, most refineries operate at maximum emissions standards. Meaning that their average output of toxins into the air is the maximum allowable by the federal government. Meaning that when normal operations, for whatever reason, aren't "average" - maybe the batch that day is particularly heavy, or whatever - the emissions coming from the plant will exceed the standards.

Other than air quality, there's also considerable water pollution, noise pollution, and refineries smell terrible.

There's also a lot of refineries that don't even try to comply with federal standards, because they can't, so they just get an exemption. Now there is someone trying to build a new, high-tech refinery in Arizona right now, and we'll see how that works out. Even with the most top-of-the-line controls and technology, this refinery is still going to just barely qualify under federal standards, if it does at all. Oh, and it will cost $2,500,000,000 (2.5 billion US) to build.

[Kodii Rockets]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

Email I got yesterday:


THIS IS NOT THE 'DON'T BUY' GAS FOR ONE DAY, BUT IT WILL SHOW YOU HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO GET GAS BACK DOWN TO $1.30 PER GALLON.

This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. If you are tired of the gas prices going up AND they will continue to rise this summer, take time to read this please.
Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea. This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy gas on a certain day' campaign that was going around last April or May! It's worth your consideration. Join the resistance!!!!
I hear we are going to hit close to $ 4.00 a gallon by next summer, and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down?
We need to take some intelligent, united action. The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to 'hurt'
ourselves by refusing to buy gas.
It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea has come up with a plan that can really work.
Please read on and join with us!
By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $2.00 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $3.19 for regular unleaded in my town.
Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace...... not sellers.
With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action.
The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.
How ? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas.
But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.
Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. And under no circumstances buy from CITCO. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.
But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!
If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all!
(If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10 people... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am . so trust me on this one.)
How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days !!!
I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you!
Acting together we can make a difference.
If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $2.00 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK. !!!

[TheGamingChef]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

Those are always a funny read.

If I buy $3.50/gallon gas from Shell... and ExxonMobil lowers their price to $3.00/gallon... what incentive does Shell have to lower their price if I'm going to continue to buy their gas anyways?

We are a fickle people; convincing 300 million people to buy a product that is considerably higher prices than another, almost identical one, simply based on brand, is an idea that will never work

[SPTO]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

It would help if we actually opened some new domestic refineries.

If I'm not mistaken, we haven't opened a refinery in the United States in nearly 30 years.

Yes but aren't the oil reserves in the US mainly in Alaska? That'd be met with some stiff opposition from the environmental folks. I'm surprised that the US or businesses in the US hasn't really delved deeper into the offshore drilling aspect of the oil business more.

[TMagic]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

I'm letting everybody know from the beginning, I AM NOT CLAIMING I KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE LOGISTICS BEHIND OIL PRICES.

Now, I don't think that anybody is wrong either. But, I have my own simple theory. Sure, it's not as in depth as most of yours, lol, but I feel that it makes pretty good sense:

It seems to me that there is always a different reason that gas prices go up all the time. Always a different excuse.

I just think that people are wanting to make more money. I almost feel that we are being psychologically "trained" to accept gas prices. Think about it.

Gas prices are going up right now. But lets just say that they go back down all the way to $3 a gallon. Now, all of us would say that gas at that price is cheap, and if it stays at this level of $3 a gallon, not many people would complain about it being high. In fact, most people would probably be content and actually be happy that gas was at this mark, being so "cheap" after creeping towards the $4 mark.

Nobody complains about it being at $3 as everybody forgets that it was just $2 the year before. Here is where our way of thinking about what "cheap" is gets changed.

Companies know this, and know that people are pobably going to buy gas no matter what. They just can't increase prices too dramatically, or there would more than likely cause a huge uproar.

So they are gradually increasing the prices, then drop them down some but never to a point that the increased started at. So say they increase gas from $3 to $3.50. Everybody talks about the high gas prices. Then the prices drop down to $3.20 which most people would perceive as actually being "cheap". Then shortly thereafter, they increase prices some more. Up to $3.80. Then drop it back down to $3.40 and now people perceive that as being "cheap" even though it wasn't that long ago that gas was just $3 and $3.50 was considered to be too expensive. It's just an easy way to increase prices and continue to make money.

It's like right now, say prices just shot right down to $2.50 a gallon. Everybody would be ecstatic. But if you really think about it, it was just last year or sometime before it that gas was $2.10/$2.20 a gallon. And when gas got up to $2.50 people were complaining.

It seems like this is happening even faster now than it has been in the past. Money is to be made. And it seems like they are trying to make it even faster to make as much before other technologies finally break through.

I don't really think the oil companies really care about getting the cost of consumer gasoline down to $1 or $2. Why would they care considering that they can make more with higher prices and know people will still buy gas at higher prices? Using what I just theorized above, they can continue raising prices and manipulate people into buying gas at higher and higher prices.

Pretty soon we'll actually be saying that $7 a gallon is really "cheap" because the month before it was $7.50...lol

That's just my theory.

[Double Eights]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

Gas will never go below what it is now.

We've proven to the oil companies that we will pay, no matter what the price. What incentive would they have to lower their prices now?

[TMagic]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

Also, can anyone explain why after over 100 years, we can't come up with anything better to use in our cars than gas?

With all of the technological advances we have made during this time period, nothing better than gas?

It seems like back when I was in elementary school we were so close to having electric and solar powered cars. 15 yrs later, nothing. Still using gas.

If oil shortage is such a crisis worldwide, why hasn't anyone came up with anything yet? It seems like things that we have proposed are taking FOREVER to be put into place, to be put into action. The development other fuels seems to be a lifelong process.

Hmm...

[davin]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

Well put simply, most refineries operate at maximum emissions standards. Meaning that their average output of toxins into the air is the maximum allowable by the federal government. Meaning that when normal operations, for whatever reason, aren't "average" - maybe the batch that day is particularly heavy, or whatever - the emissions coming from the plant will exceed the standards.

Other than air quality, there's also considerable water pollution, noise pollution, and refineries smell terrible.

There's also a lot of refineries that don't even try to comply with federal standards, because they can't, so they just get an exemption. Now there is someone trying to build a new, high-tech refinery in Arizona right now, and we'll see how that works out. Even with the most top-of-the-line controls and technology, this refinery is still going to just barely qualify under federal standards, if it does at all. Oh, and it will cost $2,500,000,000 (2.5 billion US) to build.

Several new refineries aren't very likely. The environmental impact is very real. My dad works at one and I have heard countless stories about how hard they work to stay at peak efficiency and making sure they fall below the line for emission levels. Yes, they smell TERRIBLE! The one thing I NEVER have understood, in Toledo there is a Shell/Sun (don't remember which) Refinery, and right next to it THEY PUT A CHILDREN'S PARK!!!!!! Dear god I have no idea how that went through, literally right next to it. Anyways, what a lot of people do not know is the kind of cost it takes the maintain these things. I can only speak from my own personal experience through my dad, but every year, they basically go through the entire plant and evaluate everything. Every two years they literally replace almost everything. Last fall, it the Toledo BP Refinery was the largest construction project in the entire Midwest, and not just refineries. The costs to do that are massive, I can't give you the entire costs, but they have certain goals, and every day they fell behind in those, it cost them over 1,000,000 dollars. They call them "turnarounds", they have at least one a year, usually two, with the spring one being the shorter one. I would also like to add (for any curious) that the hours are insane during these. My dad worked 18 hour days (at time 20) for 6 (and in the last 4 weeks, 7) days a week. Yes they do get paid for it, but I don't know if I've seen a person so tired after 3 months straight of that. He never takes a day off of work, so he took a week off when it ended, I don't think I've ever seen anybody more excited to just sit there and watch tv in my life.

If people want lower gas prices, you have to increase the supply, or find a way to decrease the demand (which lets face it, is impossible). That is the problem. You have increased demand, and a very limited supply input. The cost right now for a barrel of oil are astronomical compared to just a couple years ago. At least in the case of the Toledo BP refinery, they use almost all Canadian oil (if I remember correctly, possibly from Alberta?), which isn't as clean as other kinds, but you see improved access. Now you run into the problems with other areas that you either import oil from OPEC countries (which make me angry), or you have to drill in places people wish you wouldn't drill. That is just the simple fact of the matter. Now we have to compete more in that market because of China and India, and as the years go by, the price will continue to rise. We have to find something else, find some better method, or hope their economies go to hell.

[Registered_Again]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

Also, can anyone explain why after over 100 years, we can't come up with anything better to use in our cars than gas?

With all of the technological advances we have made during this time period, nothing better than gas?

It seems like back when I was in elementary school we were so close to having electric and solar powered cars. 15 yrs later, nothing. Still using gas.

If oil shortage is such a crisis worldwide, why hasn't anyone came up with anything yet? It seems like things that we have proposed are taking FOREVER to be put into place, to be put into action. The development other fuels seems to be a lifelong process.

Hmm...

There are synthetic fuels: coal, natural gas, biomass to liquid. They have been around for decades.

Check this out: http://www.americanenergyindependenc...heticfuel.html

Hell, why not nuclear? France does it.

[TMagic]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

There are synthetic fuels: coal, natural gas, biomass to liquid. They have been around for decades.

Check this out: http://www.americanenergyindependenc...heticfuel.html

Hell, why not nuclear? France does it.

So why haven't these alternate fuels been put into place?

Or have they?

[davin]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

There are synthetic fuels: coal, natural gas, biomass to liquid. They have been around for decades.

Check this out: http://www.americanenergyindependenc...heticfuel.html

Hell, why not nuclear? France does it.

The US is extremely cautious to go Nuclear, especially since 3 mile island. Back home, I have a nuclear plant not that far away, Davis Besse (ironically, one that isn't exactly the best maintained facility...). A lot of people like the idea of nuclear power, but then when they start planning it out, on the odd chance it gets further than just a blueprint, nobody wants to live near one or environmentalists get mad. Something is going to give in terms of nuclear power eventually.

[SPTO]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

I live close to a nuclear plant. It's not so bad...

In fact I think something like 40% of Ontario's energy is nuclear.

[Brankles]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

I say we just completely cut off the use of oil and force our scientists to implement an alternative source of energy used to power cars, whether being solar, wind, or whatever other kind of crap they can find. Out of necessity will come efficient invention.


What's the word on hydrogen powered cars? My grandpa was telling me a lot about them a few years back, and how they were going to change the energy game completely... but I haven't heard much since.

[bkfount]

Re: Can anyone explain to me why gas is still rising?

I say we just completely cut off the use of oil and force our scientists to implement an alternative source of energy used to power cars, whether being solar, wind, or whatever other kind of crap they can find. Out of necessity will come efficient invention.


What's the word on hydrogen powered cars? My grandpa was telling me a lot about them a few years back, and how they were going to change the energy game completely... but I haven't heard much since.

yeah, it's utterly amazing how our country has become handcuffed by politicians, environmentalists, lobbyists, bureaucracy, corporations, etc that have killed innovation. We did a hell of a lot more in less time decades ago than we ever could today. There's nothing wrong with nuclear power in the US. No one died in the Three Mile Island incident, and Chernobyl happened because it was a ****ty soviet country. Even if we could get past the fear of radioactive death, now we get spooked by terrorists attacking them. Why build anything ever again then?

Besides, how long has it taken to even start to switch people off something as insignificant as analog televisions? Even if they had a serious alternate fuel option ready today, it would take 15-20 years for it to be standard anyways. Gas and oil are here to stay, so why worry about it. It's not like lots of people can actually choose to not buy gas. Even those that don't will pay for it with higher cost of food or retail goods.