Big Three changes need to start at the top

[dave374]

A lot of the criticism of the Big Three automakers usually is aimed at the unionized workers, their salaries and benefits.
I am not saying the unions are perfect and agree the benefits are insane, but what kind of message does this (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/aut...ets/index.html) send?

They're near bankruptcy and their CEOs all take separate private jets.

It's pretty sad when the rank and file are asked to make painful sacrifices, yet these knuckleheads do nothing.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Yep, that's the case in almost every industry. Concessions need to be made from both the top and from the bottom (well, not exactly the bottom, since unions are very powerful in the auto industry) to get them back on track. These kinds of amenities should be a thing of the past unless they're absolutely necessary for keeping the company running. It's just a slap in the face to the workers who are being laid-off and to taxpayers who will undoubtedly be bailing these dicks out soon.

[fishepa]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Unions should be done away with.

[sportznut02]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Unions should be done away with.

i would not have a problem with that, it protects to many lazy workers. I have been in Unions before and have never cared for them thought it was just a waste of money

[GoToledo]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

A lot of the criticism of the Big Three automakers usually is aimed at the unionized workers, their salaries and benefits.
I am not saying the unions are perfect and agree the benefits are insane, but what kind of message does this (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/aut...ets/index.html) send?

They're near bankruptcy and their CEOs all take separate private jets.

It's pretty sad when the rank and file are asked to make painful sacrifices, yet these knuckleheads do nothing.

On the news this morning, they said that the CEO of Ford made $23 million last year. He also lives in Seattle, not Detroit. He takes his private jet back to Seattle every weekend.

I find it sickening that these people come to the government asking to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

[Cebby]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The Detroit 3 (they aren't big) should all be killed, in the slowest and most painful way possible. The unions should starve and the CEOs should go unpaid.

The REAL American cars are being made in plants throughout the south, with real American labor that isn't using extortion policies and corrupt government bribes to make them paid several times more than what unskilled labor should be paid, bankrupting their employers, and then bitching about it.

Michigan/Detroit should be allowed to fail. Union leaders in non-Right to Work states should be beaten into submission with shovels. The sooner Michigan lets the unions die, the sooner they'll recover.

[fishepa]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The Detroit 3 (they aren't big) should all be killed, in the slowest and most painful way possible. The unions should starve and the CEOs should go unpaid.

The REAL American cars are being made in plants throughout the south, with real American labor that isn't using extortion policies and corrupt government bribes to make them paid several times more than what unskilled labor should be paid, bankrupting their employers, and then bitching about it.

Michigan/Detroit should be allowed to fail. Union leaders in non-Right to Work states should be beaten into submission with shovels. The sooner Michigan lets the unions die, the sooner they'll recover.

Agree 100%

[mgoblue]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Agree 100%

I agree that the buyout shouldn't be applied to the Big 3. The entire point of the buyout is to help banks that were giving dumb loans partially due to Federal legislation encouraging them (which is why I don't mind the buyout, makes sense).

The Big 3 are just whining because the economy sucks and they're hurting...people aren't buying as many cars, and they have to just suck it up and deal with it. They're no different than the small company that's struggling in this economy, and you know the government isn't giving them any extra help.

[Cebby]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

I agree that the buyout shouldn't be applied to the Big 3. The entire point of the buyout is to help banks that were giving dumb loans partially due to Federal legislation encouraging them (which is why I don't mind the buyout, makes sense).

The thing with the banking was:

1. It's much, much more important. We can go without new Detroit cars (and given that most of their cars have been the same thing forever, you could argue we've been doing that). We can't go without banking.

2. Most of the banks/investment groups were/are failing. I believe I heard that there are only 1 or 2 investment banks still in good shape. The only car manufacturers failing are the idiots paying exhorbant prices for completely replaceable workers. There are still a ton of car making jobs in the US, and the companies that are full of idiots from top to bottom are doing fine. Their profits are down a bit with the economy, but they aren't crying like school girls.

At Auburn, I took a class on industrial engineering, and I heard a guest lecturer from I think Hyundai who ran the plant in Alabama, and person basically said that the American plants are a joke.

People aren't going to stop buying cars. At worst, the Michigan people will have to move to Alabama, Tennessee, or Mississippi. That's pretty much a lateral move. Basically moving from Somalia to El Salvador.

[mgoblue]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The thing with the banking was:

1. It's much, much more important. We can go without new Detroit cars (and given that most of their cars have been the same thing forever, you could argue we've been doing that). We can't go without banking.

2. Most of the banks/investment groups were/are failing. I believe I heard that there are only 1 or 2 investment banks still in good shape. The only car manufacturers failing are the idiots paying exhorbant prices for completely replaceable workers. There are still a ton of car making jobs in the US, and the companies that are full of idiots from top to bottom are doing fine. Their profits are down a bit with the economy, but they aren't crying like school girls.

At Auburn, I took a class on industrial engineering, and I heard a guest lecturer from I think Hyundai who ran the plant in Alabama, and person basically said that the American plants are a joke.

People aren't going to stop buying cars. At worst, the Michigan people will have to move to Alabama, Tennessee, or Mississippi. That's pretty much a lateral move. Basically moving from Somalia to El Salvador.

Yeah...I hear ya. My point was more just that the government was encouraging the lenders to do all these sub-prime loans because they wanted people buying houses and whatnot, and that's what has caused this credit problem.

You're right on point though, the Big 3 are just struggling due to their own issues, not the credit problem. Why should our money go to save them? Just because they're a big company that hasn't adapted past the "good ol' boy network" of the 60's?

[yamabushi]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

Unions should be done away with.

I dont have the exact Barney Frank quote from the other day but he basically said a bail-out for the '3' is really a bail-out for the Unions.

Heres the thing; a lot of people think their jobs are some how an entitlement. Unfortunatly they are no different then any other Investment you make. If anyone took a job with GM thinking you were going to have your benifits and pay for decades on end, or even years, you are in commplete denial about that situation. If I took a job at a restaurant that was empty on weekends and their food stank Id be delusional to think Im going to keep that job for any length of time.

Not to mention that other non-union car makers here in the states make about 3x the profit on each car sold, all due to the exsessive burden of union workers.

[Heelfan71]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

all big companies have CEO's making crazy money. They cut jobs to save money and then reward themselves with huge bonuses. That practice happens everywhere and needs to stop..

[dave374]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

The idea that unions should be completely done away with is insane.
There are many, many unions that serve very useful purposes.
In the case of my newspaper, a union was critical in getting editors, reporters and ad salespeople wages that were comparable with other newspapers our size.
It also played a critical role in getting us fair vacation time.
IMO, 9/10 people who make comments like "unions should be done away with" have: A) never been in a union; B) never taken part in labour negotiations; C) only looks at the bad parts of a union - which admittedly are there.

One of the posters here mentioned the U.S. south and their foreign auto plants (Toyota and Honda). What he failed to mention is those workers make only about $3 less an hour than their UAW counterparts ... thanks to the UAW. Without those auto unions, I suspect all auto labourers would be making Wal-Mart wages ... and, no, that is not a good thing.

[Cebby]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

all big companies have CEO's making crazy money. They cut jobs to save money and then reward themselves with huge bonuses. That practice happens everywhere and needs to stop..

While the CEO's money is quite extravagant, it's almost nothing compared to the union money. GM spends $5.6 billion on healthcare in 2005.

[jpup]

Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top

I work for a supplier for GM, Ford, Chrysler, International, and soon to be Hyundai. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler go into bankruptcy, it could cost me a job that I have had for 7 years. The big 3 did it to themselves and it's going to cost us in the long run. When you promise someone the world and can't deliver, you are going to pay for it. It goes against everything I believe for the taxpayers to bail them out, but something has to be done. There are too many people, just like me, that could be without a job if the Big 3 go under.

If the US automakers are under then this economy will be much, much worse than anything you guys have witnessed thus far. You don't realize how many people depend on GM, Ford, and Chrysler for their jobs. It's millions and millions.