Re: Big Three changes need to start at the top
Cebby...no offense, but I don't need a lesson in economics. I grasp the concept quite well.
My point is...I DON'T BELIEVE REAL FREE TRADE EXISTS. I'm sorry, I don't mean to "shout", but you seemed to just skim past the statements I actually post and then post a fact(like the Barney Frank portion...now this) that I fully understand, but has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
You make some valid points.
I don't quite agree with the way your points face(such as a "lateral" move of the workforce being just fine and dandy)...but I respect your belief in them and I'm not arguing for arguments sake.
I am in a profession in NYC that forbids me being part of a union. I'm considered and "essential" worker, and their big problem with us being in a union is striking. Trust me....nobody in my field of work wants to strike.
So they let us form an "association".
Let me give you a little inside insight on how contract negotiations go with my association and the City.
The City of New York: "We are offering you a 4% raise in salary over the next 4 years. In return we want 1 vacation day and 15 minutes of your washup time"
The U.F.A.: "That's not a raise.....that's a trade"
The City: "Too bad. Take it or leave it....what are you gonna do strike?
The Taylor Law forbids it.
We vote it down.....4 years passes(the City has no real incentive to give us a contract offer....there is nothing we can do and the ramifications of the Taylor Law would crush us if we did dare any job actions....the penalties going the other way(against the City) are a JOKE) and we eventually have to take a contract in which we basically got 0% in raises for 4 years and the money that the City saved funded the new contract raises PLUS we are forced to give givebacks.
Spread that out over a 20 year career and you are looking at HALF(maybe more) of your career with no real raise(just to keep up with cost of living).
Add to that the fact that most guys only live 10-15 years past their retirement, so the pension benefits don't nearly make up for losing those raises.
Sounds like a great deal not having the protection of a Union behind you, huh?
Funny thing is.....I'm not a real "union guy"...I've only been in one my entire life and only for a few short years......but without it...your up against the wall and the other guy is willing to shoot without even giving you a blindfold.
M.K.
Knight165
Cebby...no offense, but I don't need a lesson in economics. I grasp the concept quite well.
My point is...I DON'T BELIEVE REAL FREE TRADE EXISTS. I'm sorry, I don't mean to "shout", but you seemed to just skim past the statements I actually post and then post a fact(like the Barney Frank portion...now this) that I fully understand, but has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
You make some valid points.
I don't quite agree with the way your points face(such as a "lateral" move of the workforce being just fine and dandy)...but I respect your belief in them and I'm not arguing for arguments sake.
I am in a profession in NYC that forbids me being part of a union. I'm considered and "essential" worker, and their big problem with us being in a union is striking. Trust me....nobody in my field of work wants to strike.
So they let us form an "association".
Let me give you a little inside insight on how contract negotiations go with my association and the City.
The City of New York: "We are offering you a 4% raise in salary over the next 4 years. In return we want 1 vacation day and 15 minutes of your washup time"
The U.F.A.: "That's not a raise.....that's a trade"
The City: "Too bad. Take it or leave it....what are you gonna do strike?
The Taylor Law forbids it.We vote it down.....4 years passes(the City has no real incentive to give us a contract offer....there is nothing we can do and the ramifications of the Taylor Law would crush us if we did dare any job actions....the penalties going the other way(against the City) are a JOKE) and we eventually have to take a contract in which we basically got 0% in raises for 4 years and the money that the City saved funded the new contract raises PLUS we are forced to give givebacks.
Spread that out over a 20 year career and you are looking at HALF(maybe more) of your career with no real raise(just to keep up with cost of living).
Add to that the fact that most guys only live 10-15 years past their retirement, so the pension benefits don't nearly make up for losing those raises.
Sounds like a great deal not having the protection of a Union behind you, huh?
Funny thing is.....I'm not a real "union guy"...I've only been in one my entire life and only for a few short years......but without it...your up against the wall and the other guy is willing to shoot without even giving you a blindfold.
M.K.
Knight165
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