Half of students don't belong in college

[Cyros]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

I'm not sure I agree with the post as a whole, but I do think there are some colleges that aren't doing as much as they can to truly educate their students (in particular, that one quote "we pretend to teach and they pretend to learn" prompted this thought).

For example, based on feedback I've heard from friends at other schools, an introductory computer science class at James Madison University (as of 2006) consists of nothing more than using Microsoft Office (which, IMHO, doesn't really have anything to do with the CS field). Worse than that, at West Virginia University in Morgantown, (again as of 2006) there exists at least one math class where assignments are online with four multiple-choice selections for each problem, and assignment questions each allow up to five resubmissions with no penalty for resubmission. Effectively then, you can get 100s on all the assignments in this class without actually doing anything.

By no means am I saying that all classes at those two institutions are like that, and I know first-hand that many college institutions are in fact not like this. That said, I don't doubt that such classes exist elsewhere, where they probably ought not to. It's a disservice to the students to have curriculums include classes like the ones above, which either A) aren't particularly useful for a particular field, or B) are classes only in name, but instead are more like survey forms.

We have an intro class for computers here called Computers in Modern Society (stupid name) that is simply Microsoft office. It is however, just a Gen Ed course.

[auburntigersfan]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

1. I hate need-based scholarships, I'm in favor of all merit-based scholarships. If a student did not earn it, then I do not believe they deserve it.

2. On your comment on Ivy League schools, as a matter of fact the Dean of Admissions at Princeton was at my school today. When asked about retention rate she said most of the time the only reason a person fails out is not going to class. She said everyone that goes to class is fine for the most part, even if they couldn't get all the work done they needed to for that specific class.

3. Don't even talk about China being so much greater than us. Sure, many of the best schools in China have brilliant students that can own the average American student, but there is also immense poverty not even comparable to that which is experienced in the US. Every child in the US is given the opportunity for free education through HS, that in itself is a pretty large feat.

4. The Dean of Admissions at KU was at my school today, too. It was kind of funny, it was the Deans of Admissions at Princeton, Davidson, and ...KU. All a student has to do to be accepted to KU is score 24 or higher on his act, have a decent gpa, or have a decent essay. ONE OF THE THREE. Obviously, with standards like that at plenty schools, many people don't deserve to be in college.

5. About the pretending to teach and pretending to learn comment, that's why a person must choose his school wisely. I wouldn't want to be in a situation like that.

[fistofrage]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

1. China's GDP is still $10 trillion less than ours. Obviously they're growing faster, but pretty much everyone should be growing faster than us. That tends to happen when you're worth 3 times as much as any other state in the world.

2. I doubt our entire infrastructure crumbles over the next 20 years.

3. I have doubts that anything China could build would be better than our crumbling infrastructure.

Pride cometh before the fall.........

Look at the trade deficits. If you have more going out than coming in while the others have more coming in than going out, its simple what will happen next. You are seeing a mass erosion of the US wealth and its just the beginning if the US doesn't shore up its problems quickly.

[Cebby]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

2. On your comment on Ivy League schools, as a matter of fact the Dean of Admissions at Princeton was at my school today. When asked about retention rate she said most of the time the only reason a person fails out is not going to class. She said everyone that goes to class is fine for the most part, even if they couldn't get all the work done they needed to for that specific class.

The only reason a person fails out of an Ivy League school is if they decide to leave. It is essentially impossible to fail out of an Ivy League school. Their grade inflation makes community colleges jealous.

[auburntigersfan]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

The only reason a person fails out of an Ivy League school is if they decide to leave. It is essentially impossible to fail out of an Ivy League school. Their grade inflation makes community colleges jealous.

They want to keep their retention rate as high as possible, simple as that.

I guess post-graduate studies is where they really weed 'em out.

[Cebby]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

I guess post-graduate studies is where they really weed 'em out.

Admissions is the only place they weed out students.

[Cusefan]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

Personally, I think College is the biggest scam in the History of Modern Education. Let me Explain, People spend a extraordinary amount of money to get a education to get certain job that really should not even need 4 years of school. I Understand some professions utilize the skills learned in College but take Law Enforcement for Example. People go to school for 4 years, get a degree in Criminal Justice and go be a City cop. Does anyone really think someone needs 4 years to learn how to become a cop?

Personally I think more people should look into the Military, If they have a certain trade in mind the Military is often a better route to take than college, plus you get paid.

[Cebby]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

People go to school for 4 years, get a degree in Criminal Justice and go be a City cop. Does anyone really think someone needs 4 years to learn how to become a cop?

Obviously you don't need to be, but I'd much rather have a police force that is well educated and has some level of maturity gained in college compared to one right out of high school. This goes for pretty much every job.

[superjames1992]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

Personally I think more people should look into the Military, If they have a certain trade in mind the Military is often a better route to take than college, plus you get paid.

And the military pays for your college to a certain extent, I believe. My dad basically went to school for free back in the 70s because the WV Air National Guard payed for it. I'm not sure if it's quite the same now, though.

[auburntigersfan]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

And the military pays for your college to a certain extent, I believe. My dad basically went to school for free back in the 70s because the WV Air National Guard payed for it. I'm not sure if it's quite the same now, though.

I have a relative who joined the national guard to pay for school, well he's currently in Afghanistan, but his tuition got paid for.

[p_rushing]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

I don't know if its 50%, but yes a lot are not prepared. It starts though in high school and has trickled down. Kids are getting passed because it would hurt their psyche if they failed. College isn't for everyone and not all people should have white collar jobs. As high schools watered down, then colleges have to do the same thing to keep enrollment up. Colleges need to go back to harder classes and force you to work to pass. Those who can't handle it, will have to go somewhere else for 2 years and prove they can do it.

I went to an academic/college prep high school and I was amazed at some of the other people in my classes. The thought process, reading/writing, and problem solving skills were lacking. It all goes back to high school and how the kids were/weren't prepared there.

I'm not in favor of deciding your future at young ages that some countries do, but the fact is that there are smart and dumb people in the world. The dumber kids need more attention and that tends to cause the smarter kids to be bored. Schools need to key in on this. You either hurt the ones who need extra help or hurt the ones who don't need help because you are watering down the material. That would separate the kids and we can't have anyone thinking they are dumb because it might hurt them.

[BigTigLSU]

Re: Half of students don't belong in college

Who makes the judgment on who belongs and who doesn't... Of all the things our government waste money on, providing the chance at an education is well worth the cost. I think a lot of people are just blindly going into the jungle swinging with a machete trying to figure out how to fix our economy. If nothing else its a place where kids can turn into adults with a safety net. We shouldn't help dumb down our society by telling people education isn't important. What someone does with their education is two fold... There are well off people that are bad students but go to college just because its expected by their family, they have mediocre grades but leave out of college and get well paying jobs purely based off the connections they have regardless if they are smart or dumb. There are people who are limited even if they excel academically... so the job you end up with after college is not a good way to value the worth of your education.


The difference a person who has gone to college and experience life compared to a person who goes directly into the work force is astounding.... College in its basic form should prepare you for dealing with other people of other backgrounds it should raise your consciousness and socially mature you... It should make you a more well rounded person.