Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

[55]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

There are far too many people talking about equine masturbation in this thread for me.

[DickDalewood]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

In any case, I'm pretty sure it's "jackoff."


lol


The only reason you think there should be a pause is because of the connotation of "jack off."

Try saying "Uncle Tim" in stead of "Uncle Jack." No pause needed.

But what's the fun in helping someone timoff a horse?

[DickDalewood]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

or "all of the sudden"

Ooh, for some reason that made me think of this one:

Sometimes, instead of saying "Are you" or "Were you", I'll hear people say "Was you".... as in, "Was you going to the store tonight?"

Awful.

[CMH]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

Actually you could use semicolon. That might be a better thing to use.

I helped my Uncle Jack; off the horse

Please, no!

This is one of those things that really irks me. Semicolons are not like commas; semicolons are more like periods.

See what I did there? That's how you use a semicolon. Two or more sentences that form one complete thought.

[CMH]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

As I'm aware, commas are used more for commonplace pauses and listings of whatever sort. When you say, "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" it almost doesn't appropriate to pause. Again, dashes aren't necessarily pauses, but more so a means to describe more than is sufficient within a sentence. Commas are actual pauses.

Yea, commas are commonly used as pauses, but I think you're letting your knowledge of commas overshadow your understanding of it.

"I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse," is a fine sentence. Commas don't only work as pauses; they also work to identify essential elements of a sentence.

Knowing that, it does not mean you always use a comma to identify essential elements of a sentence.

It would be incorrect to write: "United States President, Barack Obama, won the Nobel Peace Prize."

There are no commas needed. It's the same as saying: "The story was written by ESPN writer Rob Neyer." No comma needed between writer and Rob.

Now if you wrote: "That was written by an excellent ESPN writer, Rob Neyer, last week," then you are fine. Though, it would be best to rewrite that sentence as: "That was written by Rob Neyer, an excellent ESPN writer, last week."

[Blzer]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

Yea, commas are commonly used as pauses, but I think you're letting your knowledge of commas overshadow your understanding of it.

"I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse," is a fine sentence. Commas don't only work as pauses; they also work to identify essential elements of a sentence.

Knowing that, it does not mean you always use a comma to identify essential elements of a sentence.

It would be incorrect to write: "United States President, Barack Obama, won the Nobel Peace Prize."

There are no commas needed. It's the same as saying: "The story was written by ESPN writer Rob Neyer." No comma needed between writer and Rob.

Now if you wrote: "That was written by an excellent ESPN writer, Rob Neyer, last week," then you are fine. Though, it would be best to rewrite that sentence as: "That was written by Rob Neyer, an excellent ESPN writer, last week."

See, those aren't even considered complete sentences when you use the commas like that. Take the horse sentence, for instance: you're using the commas like I use dashes or parentheses. Okay, so let's assume that's true... that is, without the comma'd out section of the sentence, it would still be complete. Well that doesn't happen in your next sentence examples. In the Obama one, you separated part of his entire label with a comma, rather than separating the object with the identifier. Now, if you used the article "The" at the beginning of the sentence, it would be complete.

For instance:

"The United States president, Barack Obama, won the Nobel Peace Prize."

This works, because even if you take out ", Barack Obama," it's still a complete sentence (granted, that's not how I use commas... this is where I use parentheses in my speak... in an essay I would use dashes). So the sentence is, "The United States president won the Nobel Peace Prize." The way you used it (if the section is removed) would be, "United States President won the Nobel Peace Prize." This would only be acceptable if you are labeling Obama as "United States President," just like people were labeling Jack as "Uncle Jack" as if "Uncle" was part of his name. But if it's part of his name, you can't separate it with commas. That's why this doesn't work.

And again, the second one is you labeling "ESPN writer Rob Neyer" as an entire name of the person. You could just the same say, "The story was written by Rob Neyer." I agree that comments shouldn't be included, because as I said above, you can't separate part of your 'name' with commas. You can't just say, "The story was written by ESPN writer," unless you're calling someone "ESPN writer" by name. But again, the article "the" makes the difference here where you are splitting apart an entire label with an object and an identifier, where the identifier is extra information for the reader. So if you write, "The story was written by the ESPN writer, Rob Neyer," you have now appropriated your use for a comma, because "ESPN writer" is now an object where you could write the sentence without saying Rob Neyer. Though because you're adding him, a break of some sort is necessary.

To revert back to the original sentence, if you call your uncle Jack "Uncle Jack," then you wouldn't separate part of his entire calling/label with a comma. So you would never put, "I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse." That's essentially the same issue you had with those other two sentences.


EDIT: Oh, and for the English majors, I'm using the term "object" very loosely. I'm not referring to the actual appropriated use of the term in the overall structure of a sentence where an object is the noun that's being given the action by the subject, but I'm just calling something an object for the sense that it actually is an object (a person, a... washing machine, I don't know).

[bgeno]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

See, those aren't even considered complete sentences when you use the commas like that. Take the horse sentence, for instance: you're using the commas like I use dashes or parentheses. Okay, so let's assume that's true... that is, without the comma'd out section of the sentence, it would still be complete. Well that doesn't happen in your next sentence examples. In the Obama one, you separated part of his entire label with a comma, rather than separating the object with the identifier. Now, if you used the article "The" at the beginning of the sentence, it would be complete.

For instance:

"The United States president, Barack Obama, won the Nobel Peace Prize."

This works, because even if you take out ", Barack Obama," it's still a complete sentence (granted, that's not how I use commas... this is where I use parentheses in my speak... in an essay I would use dashes). So the sentence is, "The United States president won the Nobel Peace Prize." The way you used it (if the section is removed) would be, "United States President won the Nobel Peace Prize." This would only be acceptable if you are labeling Obama as "United States President," just like people were labeling Jack as "Uncle Jack" as if "Uncle" was part of his name. But if it's part of his name, you can't separate it with commas. That's why this doesn't work.

And again, the second one is you labeling "ESPN writer Rob Neyer" as an entire name of the person. You could just the same say, "The story was written by Rob Neyer." I agree that comments shouldn't be included, because as I said above, you can't separate part of your 'name' with commas. You can't just say, "The story was written by ESPN writer," unless you're calling someone "ESPN writer" by name. But again, the article "the" makes the difference here where you are splitting apart an entire label with an object and an identifier, where the identifier is extra information for the reader. So if you write, "The story was written by the ESPN writer, Rob Neyer," you have now appropriated your use for a comma, because "ESPN writer" is now an object where you could write the sentence without saying Rob Neyer. Though because you're adding him, a break of some sort is necessary.

To revert back to the original sentence, if you call your uncle Jack "Uncle Jack," then you wouldn't separate part of his entire calling/label with a comma. So you would never put, "I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse." That's essentially the same issue you had with those other two sentences.


EDIT: Oh, and for the English majors, I'm using the term "object" very loosely. I'm not referring to the actual appropriated use of the term in the overall structure of a sentence where an object is the noun that's being given the action by the subject, but I'm just calling something an object for the sense that it actually is an object (a person, a... washing machine, I don't know).

It's because you're adding the to the sentence. It completely changes the structure.

"The story was written by the ESPN writer, Rob Neyer."

...and...

"The story was written by ESPN writer Rob Neyer."

... are completely different sentences.


Without adding the, the phrase ESPN writer is essentially a title. The object of the preposition is ESPN writer Rob Neyer. When you put the word the, the object of the preposition becomes the ESPN writer. Hence, the writer's name is non-essential information, and one can set it off in parentheses.



On setting off Jack in parentheses:

It would depend upon the context, not what you typically call Jack.

For instance...

"I helped my uncle, Jack, off the horse."

... is perfectly fine if the point of the sentence is that you helped your uncle off the horse and that his name is non-essential information. Basically, you're helping your uncle off the horse, regardless of his name.

"I helped Uncle Jack off the horse."

... is fine as well. Basically, you're helping Uncle Jack off the horse. In this case, it is essential that Jack's name is used.

[Blzer]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

It's because you're adding the to the sentence. It completely changes the structure.

"The story was written by the ESPN writer, Rob Neyer."

...and...

"The story was written by ESPN writer Rob Neyer."

... are completely different sentences.


Without adding the, the phrase ESPN writer is essentially a title. The object of the preposition is ESPN writer Rob Neyer. When you put the word the, the object of the preposition becomes the ESPN writer. Hence, the writer's name is non-essential information, and one can set it off in parentheses.

Correct, that's exactly what I was saying. You are essentially confirming my point, that you can't include a comma in the latter sentence because "ESPN writer" is part of the entire label. As we used a comma in the first sentence (or whatever we may use), it's because "Rob Neyer" is now non-crucial information. As I said earlier, you can't just say, "The story was written by ESPN writer." That sentence is incomplete. It's like saying, "The floor was cleaned by janitor." Unless his/her name is Janitor (and in which case it would be capitalized), "janitor" is otherwise an object and this sentence would be missing an article, making it an incomplete sentence.

I hope you realize that you and I are in total agreement here (in that we're both arguing the same point), that's all I'm saying.

[bgeno]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

Correct, that's exactly what I was saying. You are essentially confirming my point, that you can't include a comma in the latter sentence because "ESPN writer" is part of the entire label. As we used a comma in the first sentence (or whatever we may use), it's because "Rob Neyer" is now non-crucial information. As I said earlier, you can't just say, "The story was written by ESPN writer." That sentence is incomplete. It's like saying, "The floor was cleaned by janitor." Unless his/her name is Janitor (and in which case it would be capitalized), "janitor" is otherwise an object and this sentence would be missing an article, making it an incomplete sentence.

I hope you realize that you and I are in total agreement here (in that we're both arguing the same point), that's all I'm saying.

hahahaha

My bad. I must have misunderstood your post.

And I see after re-reading the posts that we're BOTH in agreement with YankeePride... all three of us just said the same thing in consecutive posts... lol

[Scottdau]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

Please, no!

This is one of those things that really irks me. Semicolons are not like commas; semicolons are more like periods.

See what I did there? That's how you use a semicolon. Two or more sentences that form one complete thought.

True, but it can be used more then you realize.

[bgeno]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

True, but it can be used more then you realize.

I don't think it can be used as much as you think you realize... lol

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/semicolons.asp

[Scottdau]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

The funny thing is this will probably all change again. Especially when you get the experts auguring with each other.

[Scottdau]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

I don't think it can be used as much as you think you realize... lol

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/semicolons.asp

So there are 5 rules? I am sure that is more then people realized. No?

[bgeno]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

So there are 5 rules? I am sure that is more then people realized. No?

Only Rule 3 was new to me.

[Scottdau]

Re: Why is proper grammar dying on the internet?

Only Rule 3 was new to me.

Well there you go. But people seem to act like there is only one way to use semicolon that is really my whole point. The one that I had problems with is the verb and subject agreement. In fact I still have a problem with that.