Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

[DocHolliday]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

If I was her Dad I would be realllly angry right now. First at the principle, then at the Cop that thought it was a good Idea to cuff the girl.

This Country is toast. I give us another 50 years at most.

[JBH3]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Another fine example of tax dollars at work!

Looks like I'm the only one from the opposite side of the fence...seeing as how I'm the husband of a high school teacher.

...or maybe it's I'm just mal-adjusted because I was a Marine for 5 years and understand a zero-tolerance policy?

If you think more tax dollars are "wasted" on this than NASA, welfare, DHS, and countless other state/federal govt. programs/depts then....

There's a couple blurbs from the article I hold issue with:

Critics say schools and police have gone too far, overreacting and using well-intended rules for incidents involving nonviolent offenses such as drawing on desks, writing on other school property or talking back to teachers.

Really? All the power has been taken out of school officials hands. There's less and less disciplinary action which can be taken, parents fight EVERYTHING nowadays even when their child is blatantly wrong, and kids are more and more rotten by the bunch.

They just dismiss the talking back to teachers remark when say 30+ years talking back in class would've gotten you a switch. THAT was effective for keeping order. Now kids can say whatever they want, male students have verbally sexually harrassed my wife, and the parents protect their children and the schools hands are tied w/ little power in the matter.

So if there's a zero tolerance policy GOOD.

We are arresting them at younger and younger ages [in cases] that used to be covered with a trip to the principal's office, not sending children to jail," said Emma Jordan-Simpson, executive director of the Children's Defense Fund, a national children's advocacy group.

That's because kids are worse and worse now. There's TOO MANY distractions at home. Too many games, TV shows, social websites, etc. There's also TOO MANY adult distractions: working long hours, social websites, DVR, etc., all the advances of technology which a lot of adults take interest in OVER their children's day to day dealings in school...until it's too late and little Timmy or Suzy is failing Spanish.

Parents think school is daycare in today's world, and the behavior of kids and the power afforded to teachers in controlling their classroom is decreasing every year.

Shoot...my wife can't even give a student a zero when they don't turn an assignment in because so many parents have complained about the zero effecting their child's GPA. Uh...you don't do the assignment you get a zero, not a 60.

You guys need to understand all of THIS before you take the article for what it's worth based on shock value of a 12 yr old handcuffed.

Did I mention school shootings....geesh. I hate our society.

[MrJackFlash]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Looks like I'm the only one from the opposite side of the fence...seeing as how I'm the husband of a high school teacher.

...or maybe it's I'm just mal-adjusted because I was a Marine for 5 years and understand a zero-tolerance policy?

If you think more tax dollars are "wasted" on this than NASA, welfare, DHS, and countless other state/federal govt. programs/depts then....

There's a couple blurbs from the article I hold issue with:



Really? All the power has been taken out of school officials hands. There's less and less disciplinary action which can be taken, parents fight EVERYTHING nowadays even when their child is blatantly wrong, and kids are more and more rotten by the bunch.

They just dismiss the talking back to teachers remark when say 30+ years talking back in class would've gotten you a switch. THAT was effective for keeping order. Now kids can say whatever they want, male students have verbally sexually harrassed my wife, and the parents protect their children and the schools hands are tied w/ little power in the matter.

So if there's a zero tolerance policy GOOD.



That's because kids are worse and worse now. There's TOO MANY distractions at home. Too many games, TV shows, social websites, etc. There's also TOO MANY adult distractions: working long hours, social websites, DVR, etc., all the advances of technology which a lot of adults take interest in OVER their children's day to day dealings in school...until it's too late and little Timmy or Suzy is failing Spanish.

Parents think school is daycare in today's world, and the behavior of kids and the power afforded to teachers in controlling their classroom is decreasing every year.

Shoot...my wife can't even give a student a zero when they don't turn an assignment in because so many parents have complained about the zero effecting their child's GPA. Uh...you don't do the assignment you get a zero, not a 60.

You guys need to understand all of THIS before you take the article for what it's worth based on shock value of a 12 yr old handcuffed.

Did I mention school shootings....geesh. I hate our society.

I agree with everything you just said. Some of the stuff these kids today get away with,you tried pulling that stuff when I was growing up,and you knew what was gonna happen the moment your folks caught wind of it.

Go ahead and backtalk one of your teachers if you wanted too. You knew what was gonna happen after the teacher told you,"I just got off the phone with your father." Now,the teacher calls home and they get their feelings hurt by the parents.

I swear,these kids today just need the stick put on them


As far as this girl is concerned,I'm not saying that she should have been arrested. With that being said,you know you're not suppose to write on school property,so don't do it. Don't do it and then cry when punishment is handed down.

[BurghFan]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

WTF, that is just messed up. Why would you arrest a 12 y/o who doodled on her desk probably out of boredom. I'd love to hear the the principals side of the story. What is this world coming to? Give her a day or 2 of detention and make her clean her desk and perhaps all the other desks in the classroom.

[ScoobySnax]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

I agree with everything you just said. Some of the stuff these kids today get away with,you tried pulling that stuff when I was growing up,and you knew what was gonna happen the moment your folks caught wind of it.

Go ahead and backtalk one of your teachers if you wanted too. You knew what was gonna happen after the teacher told you,"I just got off the phone with your father." Now,the teacher calls home and they get their feelings hurt by the parents.

I swear,these kids today just need the stick put on them


As far as this girl is concerned,I'm not saying that she should have been arrested. With that being said,you know you're not suppose to write on school property,so don't do it. Don't do it and then cry when punishment is handed down.

So if you punch a guy at school and get life in prison, you won't think that's a little overboard? Zero-tolerance, right?

I know it's a little too extreme, but the concept is the same. I believe that the punishment should fit the "crime." That is all.

[MrJackFlash]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

WTF, that is just messed up. Why would you arrest a 12 y/o who doodled on her desk probably out of boredom. I'd love to hear the the principals side of the story. What is this world coming to?

Not saying she should have been arrested,but damn she's acting like nothing was suppose to happen to her. You know you're not suppose to do it,but you do it anyway. Come on. Some kind of punishment has to be handed out. Hell at least be smart enough to write on the desk when nobody is looking at you.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Not saying she should have been arrested,but damn she's acting like nothing was suppose to happen to her. You know you're not suppose to do it,but you do it anyway. Come on. Some kind of punishment has to be handed out. Hell at least be smart enough to write on the desk when nobody is looking at you.

Yes, the punishment should be a talking to, maybe an hour of detention. But getting arrested?

[BurghFan]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Not saying she should have been arrested,but damn she's acting like nothing was suppose to happen to her. You know you're not suppose to do it,but you do it anyway. Come on. Some kind of punishment has to be handed out. Hell at least be smart enough to write on the desk when nobody is looking at you.

Did you read the article? The 1st line of the 2nd paragraph says she was expecting a lecture or maybe detention so she knew she was wrong and she expected to be punished.

[jeremym480]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Micheal P. Fay says she got off to easy.

Spoiler

[JBH3]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

I agree with everything you just said. Some of the stuff these kids today get away with,you tried pulling that stuff when I was growing up,and you knew what was gonna happen the moment your folks caught wind of it.

Go ahead and backtalk one of your teachers if you wanted too. You knew what was gonna happen after the teacher told you,"I just got off the phone with your father." Now,the teacher calls home and they get their feelings hurt by the parents.

I swear,these kids today just need the stick put on them

As far as this girl is concerned,I'm not saying that she should have been arrested. With that being said,you know you're not suppose to write on school property,so don't do it. Don't do it and then cry when punishment is handed down.

Man...my parents never believed me, even in cases where I may have had a legit argument, because I was taught to respect authority. I love listening to the John Thompson show when able to here locally in the DC-Metro area. He said youngsters today have a problem w/ respecting authority, as if it is a sign of weakness. That couldn't be more true.

So if you punch a guy at school and get life in prison, you won't think that's a little overboard? Zero-tolerance, right?

I know it's a little too extreme, but the concept is the same. I believe that the punishment should fit the "crime." That is all.

No. It's not overboard. If you know the punishment for punching someone in the face is zero tolerance than DO NOT punch them in the face! If the punishment is life in prison GOOD, one less idiot who cannot judge and weigh the consequences of punching someone in the face over spending the rest of their natural life behind bars.

That would/could be an effective law actually. Unfortunately though our justice system has in place more laws to protect the person who threw the punch than who received it....

Anyways....This whole issue, letting the girl get off, demeans the whole process of punishment. The lesson we are teaching kids here is: Break a rule, recieve punishment, cry injustice, and eventually get off.

We're showing children that the media and people that have NO DIRECT contact w/ behavior in a professional/educational setting can overpower authority if enough people complain.

So now kids will write all over desks because nothing will happen to them, NOTHING that will STOP them from doing it AGAIN!

Not saying she should have been arrested,but damn she's acting like nothing was suppose to happen to her. You know you're not suppose to do it,but you do it anyway. Come on. Some kind of punishment has to be handed out.

Agreed.

Yes, the punishment should be a talking to, maybe an hour of detention. But getting arrested?

What? An hour of detention? She's an:

Outgoing 12-year-old who likes to dance and draw.

Her parents will say..."Alexa has art class and dance class after school and cannot be held back for detention. Can't she just text you a - I am sorry text -". Maybe a little overboard on the texting part, but parents will do this and ask can she just right a letter of apology....now the parent gets to decide how their kid is punished today?

[Happy29]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

It is like as the world and society ages common sense goes out the window. Sad, feel bad for the little girl. Sure she was damaging school property, but this is a bit extreme.

Political correctness and loss of common sense are the biggest red flags to me about the future of this country.

You said it. Political Correctness is ruining this world. When did everyone turn into a bunch of third graders about things?

[JBH3]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

It is like as the world and society ages common sense goes out the window. Sad, feel bad for the little girl. Sure she was damaging school property, but this is a bit extreme.

Political correctness and loss of common sense are the biggest red flags to me about the future of this country.

Which is more common sensical?

(1) Knowing there are strict rules against damaging school property i.e. ZERO TOLERANCE, and not scrawling some stupid message on a desk in permanent marker?

-or-

(2) Knowingly breaking the rules?

Common Sense, to me, is #1.

Do you think that the school system just enacted a 'zero tolerance' policy w/o disseminating that to students, parents, and teachers?

There was probably an assembly, a newsletter, a school board meeting, etc. etc. etc. so the knowledge was out there. Little innocent Alexa was probably talking during the assembly or not taking heed to the information, maybe had a newsletter she was supposed to give to mommy and daddy and didn't? Maybe it was mailed by the school and mommy and daddy disregarded it?

Meanwhile, CNN puts a picture up of a cute little 12 yr old girl, and cires of "INJUSTICE!" and you all soak it up.

[Phobia]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Which is more common sensical?

(1) Knowing there are strict rules against damaging school property i.e. ZERO TOLERANCE, and not scrawling some stupid message on a desk in permanent marker?

-or-

(2) Knowingly breaking the rules?

Common Sense, to me, is #1.

Do you think that the school system just enacted a 'zero tolerance' policy w/o disseminating that to students, parents, and teachers?

There was probably an assembly, a newsletter, a school board meeting, etc. etc. etc. so the knowledge was out there. Little innocent Alexa was probably talking during the assembly or not taking heed to the information, maybe had a newsletter she was supposed to give to mommy and daddy and didn't? Maybe it was mailed by the school and mommy and daddy disregarded it?

Meanwhile, CNN puts a picture up of a cute little 12 yr old girl, and cires of "INJUSTICE!" and you all soak it up.




I would say

Common sense would be not to judge this kid as if she is a adult. Kids screw up, do stupid things, break rules, etc etc. Their minds are developing and can't reason the way a full grown adult can. So yes there is ZERO common sense in throwing a 12 year old in jail for writing on a desk. My opinion of course.

[Cusefan]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Since Police officers get paid about twice as much as school custodians, this was a waste of Tax Payer money. Give her an Hour of Dentention, the Janitor has 10 minutes of work, and a phone call home.

Instead she gets arrested and will be put in the system. Bravo, Mighty fine police work Chief Wiggam.

[Jdurg]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

I have no issue at all with the girl being punished, but the punishment must fit the crime. It's akin to giving the death penalty to a shoplifter. That type of punishment is what exists in totalitarian governments, such as those seen in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. It doesn't result in a more secure country. It just results in pent up hatred and fear. Part of what makes a society great is when the members of society have the ability to question authority and the rules put out before them. If this didn't exist, then slavery would still be en vogue, and racial segregation would still exist. I mean, back in the 1960's women weren't allowed to hold high ranking positions in companies. They were relegated to secretarial duties.

I certainly believe this girl deserved to be punished, but the idea that she should be arrested for it is too extreme. While as adults we can fully comprehend the consequences of our actions, children haven't psychologically developed that ability to its fullest. This is why children and adolescents are more likely to be injured while horsing around, or do foolish things like get pregnant at a very young age, drink themselves to death, or overdose on illegal drugs. They can't yet comprehend the consequences of their actions because they don't have the mental capacity to do that. I'm sure the girl knew she would get in trouble for doing that, but at the same time her brain was likely unable to grasp the concept of being arrested for something as minor as drawing on a desk. A proper punishment would have been to force the girl to clean all the desks in the classroom for the next two weeks and to have detention. If the parents try to fight that, then the school can say "We can have the girl's actions reported to the police and arrested instead." Then, the responsibility for the type of punishment falls onto the parents where it should lie.

Again, the punishment given out for an action needs to fit the crime otherwise it doesn't really do anything of benefit. Now, this girl will just have a deep fear and hatred of authority which can lead to far, far worse developments later on in life. (It may prevent her from questioning/reporting actions taken by her boss when she gets a job, or if she gets married and her husband is a control freak it can prevent her from ever leaving her husband in fear of all blame being placed on her). The really sad thing here is that her parents will probably file a lawsuit against the school system and further waste the taxpayer's money which was already wasted by having her arrested.