Tragedy in Poland

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  • BrianFifaFan
    Semi-retired
    • Oct 2003
    • 4137

    #46
    Re: Tragedy in Poland

    When I was in the service, we flew around on a lot of 727's, which this was a knock-off of. I loved them. I wouldn't blame the jet. It was pilot error. Hopefully it wasn't a case of someone ordering the pilot into making a terrible decision. Either way, the wrong decision was made. Unless the plane was out of fuel, no way they should have tried it. Man, I feel for the people of Poland. They can't seem to catch a break. Really checkered history.
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    • jct32
      MVP
      • Jan 2006
      • 3437

      #47
      Re: Tragedy in Poland

      From what I have heard, apparently Russia has made the Polish president land in a more government controlled airport before and basically had some one on one conversations with him and held him after the flight, and so that's why he was so bent on landing at that specific airport. Just what I have heard though.
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      • Whitesox
        Closet pyromaniac
        • Mar 2009
        • 5287

        #48
        Re: Tragedy in Poland

        Originally posted by lilbently
        The DC9 was by far the most dangerous plane ever built.
        The DC 10 also didn't have excellent safety records, if I recall correctly.
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        • youvalss
          ******
          • Feb 2007
          • 16602

          #49
          Re: Tragedy in Poland

          A Russian guy who works with me is 100% sure that Putin is the one to blame. I told him to wait until we have some facts, but the guy wouldn't listen. He says it's not even a question. We'll see...
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          • superjames1992
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jun 2007
            • 31382

            #50
            Re: Tragedy in Poland

            Originally posted by youvalss
            A Russian guy who works with me is 100% sure that Putin is the one to blame. I told him to wait until we have some facts, but the guy wouldn't listen. He says it's not even a question. We'll see...
            While I doubt Russia had anything to do with it, Putin is a former member of the KGB, so who knows...
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            • Buckeyes_Doc
              In Dalton I Trust
              • Jan 2009
              • 11918

              #51
              Re: Tragedy in Poland

              The transcripts from the black box were released yesterday. Looks like this is 100% pilot error. Unbelievable an experienced pilot ignored the warnings by the ATC and the plane safety systems. It does look like he was pressured though..

              http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/wo.../02poland.html

              MOSCOW — About 14 and a half minutes before the plane crash in April that killed Poland’s president and many of its top officials, the pilot delivered bad news to the president’s chief of diplomatic protocol: The fog was so thick that they could not safely land.
              But then the pilot, Arkadiusz Protasiuk, offered to try landing once, while warning that “most likely, nothing will come of it.” The chief of protocol retreated to the cabin and returned four minutes later.
              “At the moment there is no decision from the president about what to do next,” he said, according to a transcript released Tuesday of a recording of the final minutes in the cockpit.
              Mr. Protasiuk then tried to land, descending into a wooded area about a half-mile from the runway apparently with confidence, ignoring warnings from an on-board alarm system. The cockpit was calm until the moment the plane hit a tree and flipped over. The last words on the recording are screamed obscenities.
              In releasing the 41-page transcript, the Polish government hoped to quiet persistent speculation about what had prompted the disastrous landing attempt. The document offers no evidence that President Lech Kaczynski pressured the pilot because he was late for an important ceremony, a theory that circulated widely after the disaster. It also leaves no question that the pilot was aware of the thick fog, a subject that dominated conversation in the cockpit for the 20 minutes before the crash.
              “It’s going to be dreadful, we won’t be able to see anything,” a crew member said at one point.
              Mr. Protasiuk was more hopeful. “Well, no, you can see the ground,” he said, six minutes later. “You can see something. Maybe there won’t be a tragedy.”
              The transcript shows that Mr. Protasiuk continued to descend from a safe altitude of about 650 feet for more than a minute while the plane’s Terrain Awareness and Warning System delivered the English commands “pull up, pull up” and “terrain ahead.”
              The crew members did not remark on the alarm and gave no indication that they knew they were over a forest rather than the runway.
              They may have had reason to ignore it, because the system’s manufacturer, United Avionics, said that most Russian airports, including the airport at Smolensk, where the plane was trying to land, are not in its database, so the device may give “nuisance alerts.” The Tupolev Tu-154’s left wing snagged on a birch tree, flipping the aircraft over and sending it hurtling to the ground, aviation authorities said last month. All 96 people aboard died, among them Poland’s top military commanders, its first lady, the head of its central bank and dozens of other top officials.
              The delegation was already 90 minutes behind schedule to attend a ceremony in the nearby Katyn Forest, according to the Interstate Aviation Committee, which oversees aviation in the region. The cockpit recording shows that Russian air traffic controllers told the pilot, “There are no conditions for landing.”
              Mr. Protasiuk thanked them and said, “We’ll make an attempt, but if the weather isn’t good, we’ll leave for a second round.” About seven minutes before the crash, controllers told the pilot to reascend from an elevation of 325 feet, and he answered, “If we fail to land, we are reascending on autopilot.”
              About two minutes later, an unidentified voice is heard saying someone “will be annoyed,” but most of the fragment is unintelligible.
              Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the late president’s brother, opposed the transcript’s release, saying that the victims’ families should be the first to hear the recording. Mr. Kaczynski, an opposition candidate in the coming presidential elections, boycotted the meeting on Tuesday of Poland’s National Security Council, where the recordings were first presented.
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              • youvalss
                ******
                • Feb 2007
                • 16602

                #52
                Re: Tragedy in Poland

                Pretty weird things were going on there. The pilot acted strangely, there's probably more than that, more than "an error"... Go figure.
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                • SouthernBrick
                  9.17.13
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 5831

                  #53
                  Re: Tragedy in Poland

                  Wow man....that is sad.

                  Hope they get it all figured out.

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                  • luv_mist
                    Older
                    • May 2004
                    • 9596

                    #54
                    Re: Tragedy in Poland

                    They may have had reason to ignore it, because the system’s manufacturer, United Avionics, said that most Russian airports, including the airport at Smolensk, where the plane was trying to land, are not in its database, so the device may give “nuisance alerts.”
                    That sentence is a slight problem in my mind.

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                    • Buckeyes_Doc
                      In Dalton I Trust
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 11918

                      #55
                      Re: Tragedy in Poland

                      Originally posted by luv_mist
                      That sentence is a slight problem in my mind.
                      Yes, shouldn't all airports be in the database? I noticed that as well. This is a key safety and navigational component for pilots and there is no excuse for not having every airport in.

                      I know it's easy for me to sit back and say this after this happened, but I still think flying in heavy fog where you can't see the ground the pilots should of taken the warning seriously. Obviously if the weather is clear and you can see you aren't anywhere near the terrain you can ignore it, but they couldn't see a thing.
                      Last edited by Buckeyes_Doc; 06-02-2010, 09:02 PM.
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                      • youvalss
                        ******
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 16602

                        #56
                        Re: Tragedy in Poland

                        Everything was set for this plane to crash. That's pretty much the way I see it.
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                        • Buckeyes_Doc
                          In Dalton I Trust
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 11918

                          #57
                          Re: Tragedy in Poland

                          Originally posted by youvalss
                          Everything was set for this plane to crash. That's pretty much the way I see it.
                          That's how it always seems to happen in plane crashes. It's not just one factor but a series of things that brought this plane down.
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                          • youvalss
                            ******
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 16602

                            #58
                            Re: Tragedy in Poland

                            Originally posted by Buckeyes_Doc
                            That's how it always seems to happen in plane crashes. It's not just one factor but a series of things that brought this plane down.
                            Yeah, but I meant that it looks like someone was actually making sure things go wrong.
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                            • Buckeyes_Doc
                              In Dalton I Trust
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 11918

                              #59
                              Re: Tragedy in Poland

                              Originally posted by youvalss
                              Yeah, but I meant that it looks like someone was actually making sure things go wrong.
                              I would have to disagree with that.
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