What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

[areobee401]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Maybe I missed something but were the two suspects armed?

[NDAlum]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Yes and they pointed their guns at the store employee. Not sure if they fired or not.

[NDAlum]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Ok, so Scott: Hypothetical for you

Teenage kid breaks in your home and shoots a family member

You fire back and hit the kid in the knee. He throws the gun away and can't move but is clearly alive. He is not a threat.

What do you do?

[Scottdau]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

If he killed my kid? Then that is tough, but if I did kill them then I do believe I should get first degree. I hope I get second, but I just feel if you kill someone and went out of your way to do it. And if he was down and no more threat to you. I just think that is wrong and should have a heavy charge.

[TheShizNo1]

You live by the gun you die by the gun.

[Marino]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Ok, so Scott: Hypothetical for you

Teenage kid breaks in your home and shoots a family member

You fire back and hit the kid in the knee. He throws the gun away and can't move but is clearly alive. He is not a threat.

What do you do?

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[12]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Fine, I'll leave the legalities out of it.

In my opinion, it was wrong to go back and put five rounds in the kid. If he was no longer a threat, I don't see the reason to execute him. That's where the story becomes bleak, because we don't know what kind of shape he was in and whether he continued to pose a threat.

If he wasn't a threat, the murder charge should stick -- first degree, second degree, whatever. Bottom line, you ended a human life when the situation was controlled and a threat was no longer being posed. This is not a nation where vigilantism is condoned. It is punished. End of story. Whether the guy serves eight years or 20 years is no concern of mine.

At the end of the day, with the facts currently presented to us, the murder charge is legit. It sucks, but you can't just execute people like that who pose no threat of serious bodily harm or death -- until the facts come out and state otherwise, that's the stance that I'll continue to take.

[12]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Fine, I'll leave the legalities out of it.

In my opinion, it was wrong to go back and put five rounds in the kid. If he was no longer a threat, I don't see the reason to execute him. That's where the story becomes bleak, because we don't know what kind of shape he was in and whether he continued to pose a threat.

If he wasn't a threat, the murder charge should stick -- first degree, second degree, whatever. Bottom line, you ended a human life when the situation was controlled and a threat was no longer being posed. This is not a nation where vigilantism is condoned. It is punished. End of story. Whether the guy serves eight years or 20 years is no concern of mine.

At the end of the day, with the facts currently presented to us, the murder charge is legit. It sucks, but you can't just execute people like that who pose no threat of serious bodily harm or death -- until the facts come out and state otherwise, that's the stance that I'll continue to take.

To piggy back on this... Come on, guys. I know we all love to see the bad guys get theirs. I know I do. But if this kid was lying on the ground with a bullet wound to his head, I am going to assume that the gun was no longer near him or in his possession, nor was he in any position to threaten this other man's life.

At that point, a 911 call should have been made. At that point, this guy is golden. Robbers held him at gun point, he took action and a man is seriously hurt. That's where we can probably all agree -- but what transpires after that is what becomes the grey area.

I've changed my tune and don't believe the guy should be charged with first degree murder, but I still feel what he did was a crime and it was wrong. He should serve time for it. Like I said before, if we start condoning and cheering for vigilantism, we better ready for the consequences and we can save our tax dollars by letting citizens protect themselves and ridding ourselves of police forces and emergency response units.

[PVarck31]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Just a quick thought. After he shot the kid did he know for sure the kid was unarmed? Did he know for sure the other two robbers weren't coming back for him? What if the kid on the ground had another gun in his pocket. I would say there was still a threat present. In that situation I would probably be panicking. And I surly would not be of sound mind. I don't know that I would have shot the kid 5 more times, but I can see how he could have still perceived the robber as a threat.

[kehlis]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Fine, I'll leave the legalities out of it.

In my opinion, it was wrong to go back and put five rounds in the kid. If he was no longer a threat, I don't see the reason to execute him. That's where the story becomes bleak, because we don't know what kind of shape he was in and whether he continued to pose a threat.

If he wasn't a threat, the murder charge should stick -- first degree, second degree, whatever. Bottom line, you ended a human life when the situation was controlled and a threat was no longer being posed. This is not a nation where vigilantism is condoned. It is punished. End of story. Whether the guy serves eight years or 20 years is no concern of mine.

At the end of the day, with the facts currently presented to us, the murder charge is legit. It sucks, but you can't just execute people like that who pose no threat of serious bodily harm or death -- until the facts come out and state otherwise, that's the stance that I'll continue to take.

To piggy back on this... Come on, guys. I know we all love to see the bad guys get theirs. I know I do. But if this kid was lying on the ground with a bullet wound to his head, I am going to assume that the gun was no longer near him or in his possession, nor was he in any position to threaten this other man's life.

At that point, a 911 call should have been made. At that point, this guy is golden. Robbers held him at gun point, he took action and a man is seriously hurt. That's where we can probably all agree -- but what transpires after that is what becomes the grey area.

I've changed my tune and don't believe the guy should be charged with first degree murder, but I still feel what he did was a crime and it was wrong. He should serve time for it. Like I said before, if we start condoning and cheering for vigilantism, we better ready for the consequences and we can save our tax dollars by letting citizens protect themselves and ridding ourselves of police forces and emergency response units.

Not one person has argued against anything you are saying here...

[TheShizNo1]

The store owner got the juice now.

[NDAlum]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Like I said before, if we start condoning and cheering for vigilantism, we better ready for the consequences and we can save our tax dollars by letting citizens protect themselves and ridding ourselves of police forces and emergency response units.

Please stop

Nobody is arguing that the guy was in the wrong. We were arguing with Scott in reference to 1st vs 2nd degree murder.

This statement is utterly ridiculous. I get calls for service about hearing noises in the attic, hearing a knock on a window, etc. The city of Charlotte has had two recent shootings were kids robbed people and were killed. If I posted the shootings here, I could see several people saying some sort of crime should've been brought upon the shooter. Charlotte didn't prosecute either person.

Having some vigilante justice where those who have their life endagered start taking out threats...oh that will save money for taxpayers, victims, and improve the quality of life in communities.

Who knows how many additional people would have been robbed if these persons were still alive?

[slickdtc]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

Just a quick thought. After he shot the kid did he know for sure the kid was unarmed? Did he know for sure the other two robbers weren't coming back for him? What if the kid on the ground had another gun in his pocket. I would say there was still a threat present. In that situation I would probably be panicking. And I surly would not be of sound mind. I don't know that I would have shot the kid 5 more times, but I can see how he could have still perceived the robber as a threat.

I'm with you, I wouldn't be thinking straight, I'd be ****ing pissed. Still, shooting 5 more rounds into this kid is the ultimate extreme. Especially from ANOTHER gun, right?

Should have tied him up or something to make sure he wasn't going to try anything else, if even possible.

It just sucks that this guy was forced into this situation and put under this pressure. Now he's going to do a lot of time for it with real, serious criminals.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

But I only just thought of it for two minutes?

I have had students get first degree charges mostly for gang shootings. And they were just spare of the moment things. They see someone and shoot them. I look at this the same way. Especially after going and looking for another gun.

The difference is if you are armed while committing another felony, such as drug dealing or robbery, It is first degree. Because it is deemed by the law that if you bring a gun to a robbery you have already planned to use it. Same with a drug deal gone bad.

[Scottdau]

Re: What do you guys think - Wrong or Justified?

I think every State is different. I will just say this. If he was scared why the hell go back? Even if you are not in the right mind. I can see this the DA have a field day with this case. I get what you guys are saying, but there is just a lot going on in this case. If he only gets second degree murder great, but I just have a problem with a guy going back to his store, getting another gun and than executing a kid. To me that scream first degree, but I am not a lawyer or know enough of the Law, so it is all opinion from me.