What is wrong with our society?

[RAZRr1275]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

When he cops that attitude in prison, it will be taken care of. His scrawny *** is grass if he thinks he can smirk and act like that around those parts.

I don't remember hearing about this shooting, but man that kid is one cold-hearted SOB. People like that don't even deserve to live. Forget lethal injection, bring back electrocution for his ***. Tax dollars shouldn't even be spent keeping his *** in prison. Unbelievable.

First of all that guy probably isn't sane at all - sure he may have faked psychosis during his screen before but even so its pretty obvious that he doesn't think anywhere near on the same wavelength as most people. I wouldn't consider that his fault. I'm not saying that the shooting was legitimate or shouldn't be punishable but that he does not deserve to be considered as some screwed up kid who should be shoved away into the confines of nowhere and sentenced to hell on earth for what he did - he's still a human and one probably not fully culpable for what he did due to mental illness. And fine - get what you want - imagine they kill the guy or make his sentence in prison suck. It doesn't do anything except make someone feel better due to the misery of another human being and at that point I think the line blurs between being the punisher who makes him pay for his crimes and being the criminal since the mentality is functionally the same.

Second, comments like those don't do anything except validate what he did in his head. Why do you think he flipped off the courtroom? He did it because they would react in a strong way just as you guys did. Condemning him does absolutely nothing and gives him the attention he was probably after in the first place. The focus shouldn't be on him in that light. If the focus is on him it should be disappointment at the chance at a decent life that he lost due to what he did or what his family or the victims lost due to what he did or maybe even what they or society in general can learn or gain as a result of his actions.

That said my thoughts are with the victims of the shooting.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

I'm not saying that the shooting was legitimate or shouldn't be punishable but that he does not deserve to be considered as some screwed up kid who should be shoved away into the confines of nowhere and sentenced to hell on earth for what he did - he's still a human and one probably not fully culpable for what he did due to mental illness.

Yes he does deserve that. He deserves worse than hell on earth, actually. **** him to the deepest, darkest depths of everything imaginable.

What's wrong with society is acting like we should somehow be understanding and sympathetic to someone who could perpetrate such a thing just because they may be "mentally ill." Yeah, he's mentally ill alright. He's evil. This little miscreant piece of **** is evil. Explanations for evil can be stuffed in a sack for all I care.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Yes he does deserve that. He deserves worse than hell on earth, actually. **** him to the deepest, darkest depths of everything imaginable.

What's wrong with society is acting like we should somehow be understanding and sympathetic to someone who could perpetrate such a thing just because they may be "mentally ill." Yeah, they're mentally ill alright. They're evil. This little miscreant piece of **** is evil. Explanations for evil can be stuffed in a sack for all I care.

Okay then - what does doing that accomplish and how is there a distinction between doing what he did and giving him a punishment worse than the crime he committed?

Definitely not the first time I've been called what's wrong with society...oh well. If one plans on stopping evil why shouldn't they understand the nature of it and why it occurs? Doing so is standard practice for anything else, for example, when stopping a virus one figures out how it infects, what it targets, what it does, why it does so and only then do they come up with a cure for it. I see no reason why it should be any different here.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

I hate to say it but we have to start considering anyone with these kind of mental illnesses as threats. They should not be in the same schools as normal children, and should be monitored very closely at all times.

[ubernoob]

There's plenty of mentally ill out there that don't murder people. This sack of **** deserves to rot.

As a nation, we need to look into how we treat the mentally ill - but that is not any valid excuse for taking innocent lives.

Back on topic, nothing is more wrong with society than has ever been. Its just the instant availability of news that makes it seem so.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

I hate to say it but we have to start considering anyone with these kind of mental illnesses as threats. They should not be in the same schools as normal children, and should be monitored very closely at all times.

That's not the case either. Even things like sociopathy can be entirely harmless. Just a different system of valuing things. Schizophrenia which is another popular one for people to jump to actually triggers more of a tendency to self harm than commit external violence and again, can be harmless. Also, keep in mind that a lot of mental illnesses can go undiagnosed due to there being a stigma in society that certain aspects of some of them are considered normal (i.e. depression being something everyone goes through) causing people to not report things when they have symptoms. Even with more serious disorders its not simply a matter of seeing someone and going "that guy is crazy". Symptoms can be hidden or disguised as something else causing identification to be a tricky task that is pretty much a witch hunt because mental illness takes a different appearance on every individual. What would happen is that non professionals would be looking for certain traits of a mental illness and report someone who wasn't mentally ill and vice-versa.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Okay then - what does doing that accomplish and how is there a distinction between doing what he did and giving him a punishment worse than the crime he committed?

Definitely not the first time I've been called what's wrong with society...oh well. If one plans on stopping evil why shouldn't they understand the nature of it and why it occurs? Doing so is standard practice for anything else, for example, when stopping a virus one figures out how it infects, what it targets, what it does, why it does so and only then do they come up with a cure for it. I see no reason why it should be any different here.

Because you're creating excuses for it. "Oh sorry, I was mentally ill, and let's blame everything else for being mentally ill so if I go shoot up a campus, whoops, sorry bro, I'm mentally ill."

It's a copout. It's dangerous. It's naive. There are plenty of people who are "mentally ill" who aren't a threat to anyone or anything.

I'm sick of coddling these ****ers. I'm sick of coddling evil. I don't care to understand them because that's giving evil credence. That's giving them legitimacy. They're not legitimate. They're pieces of **** and they should be treated as such.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Because you're creating excuses for it. "Oh sorry, I was mentally ill, and let's blame everything else for being mentally ill so if I go shoot up a campus, whoops, sorry bro, I'm mentally ill."

It's a copout. It's dangerous. It's naive. There are plenty of people who are "mentally ill" who aren't a threat to anyone or anything.

I'm sick of coddling these ****ers. I'm sick of coddling evil. I don't care to understand them because that's giving evil credence. That's giving them legitimacy. They're not legitimate. They're pieces of **** and they should be treated as such.

See above - Everyone responds to mental illness differently thus it would follow that some mentally ill people kill while others don't. Also mental illness isn't a totalizing concept either - different disorders create different symptoms in different people so its not a copout. Here's my next question to you - why would anyone in their right mind shoot someone and say "oops I'm mentally ill" if they weren't actually mentally ill to the extent that they would shoot someone in the first place? No sane person does that nor do most mentally ill people do that, thus the perpetrator would've been the killing sort mentally ill in the first place and it isn't a cop out.

My question remains despite your strong rhetoric - how do we fix evil if we don't understand it and how do we understand it if we simply kill it and exclude it?

[ubernoob]

See above - Everyone responds to mental illness differently thus it would follow that some mentally ill people kill while others don't. Also mental illness isn't a totalizing concept either - different disorders create different symptoms in different people so its not a copout. Here's my next question to you - why would anyone in their right mind shoot someone and say "oops I'm mentally ill" if they weren't actually mentally ill to the extent that they would shoot someone in the first place? No sane person does that nor do most mentally ill people do that, thus the perpetrator would've been the killing sort mentally ill in the first place and it isn't a cop out.

My question remains - how do we fix evil if we don't understand it and how do we understand it if we simply kill it and exclude it?

Evil is just evil. There's no magical concoction of pills and therapy that can get rid of it.

The US is over medicated as it is, no need to bring in more reasons to load people up.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Evil is just evil. There's no magical concoction of pills and therapy that can get rid of it.

The US is over medicated as it is, no need to bring in more reasons to load people up.

When did I say anything about loading people up with pills and therapy? You assume that we know enough about how "evil" functions that we have a solution for dealing with it - my argument is that we don't and thus we shouldn't destroy it but rather seek to understand it. I simply said that we shouldn't intentionally do horrible things to them because of an act that they committed that they have little/to no culpability for. Yes the result of the act is bad but I can't fault the guy for being screwed up. Its not his fault that he is that way.

[ubernoob]

When did I say anything about loading people up with pills and therapy? You assume that we know enough about how "evil" functions that we have a solution for dealing with it - my argument is that we don't and thus we shouldn't destroy it but rather seek to understand it. I simply said that we shouldn't intentionally do horrible things to them because of an act that they committed that they have little/to no culpability for. Yes the result of the act is bad but I can't fault the guy for being screwed up. Its not his fault that he is that way.

That's the thing. You say they have little or no culpability. They went however long without committing the crime - they have full culpability. They didn't come out of the womb and grow up knifing and shooting everyone in sight.

They made the conscious decision to do this. It may not be his fault he is screwed up but he is still in full control of his actions.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

See above - Everyone responds to mental illness differently thus it would follow that some mentally ill people kill while others don't. Also mental illness isn't a totalizing concept either - different disorders create different symptoms in different people so its not a copout. Here's my next question to you - why would anyone in their right mind shoot someone and say "oops I'm mentally ill" if they weren't actually mentally ill to the extent that they would shoot someone in the first place? No sane person does that nor do most mentally ill people do that, thus the perpetrator would've been the killing sort mentally ill in the first place and it isn't a cop out.

Why is mental illness used as a defense so often in situations like these?

[RAZRr1275]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Why is mental illness used as a defense so often in situations like these?

Because people who shoot people for what appears to be no reason are probably mentally ill. Other than that blame it on the legal system and defense attorneys going for the insanity defense.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Because people who shoot people for what appears to be no reason are probably mentally ill. Other than that blame it on the legal system and defense attorneys going for the insanity defense.

So isn't that what I'm saying? That people do these things because they want to and just claim mental illness "Oh sorry bro, I'm sick, I don't realize that I just shot a bunch of people dead. Feel bad for me please."

[kingkilla56]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

Because people who shoot people for what appears to be no reason are probably mentally ill. Other than that blame it on the legal system and defense attorneys going for the insanity defense.

Mentally ill relative to what? Relative to social norms? Because it isnt socially normal to be evil. Maybe evil is a mental disorder and we should pander and apologize for all evil in the world as well.

This kid deserves no sympathy. Making a conscious effort to torture the families of the victims while he is in the courtroom pretty much tells me he is the worst kind of person in the world. Mentally ill my ***.