Adaptive Difficulty

[ricardodc]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

it may be nice for casual gamers that are tied to preset difficulty levels and just want to pick the game up and play. but for people like us that like to go a bit hardcore and fine tune difficulty with sliders, this is just an extremely unrealistic way to force games to end in draws or close scores more often than they should. momentum in sports actually kinda work in the opposite way of what these codes do.

besides all that, it's an immersion killer. i'd hate to be playing and thinking "oh, i scored two goals, now it's time for the cpu to automatically start playing better".

I think I'm going to turn the adaptive AI off. Think I should?

where exactly is the file

... I guess you guys changed your minds... Now Adaptive Difficulty is fine and it's just about poor user ability.

i don't play fifa 17, but the game still shares a lot of coding with previous versions, in which i have put several hundreds of hours against the cpu.

I have played all Battlefield games series but not BF1. That doesn't give me the right to go to a BF1 forum and behave like an expert and call newbie to anyone. You should be more humble and respectful.

EA's programming logic is that every match should have a competitive scoreline, regardless of team talent level. That is clearly a flawed way to look at things

This in my opinion should be the main focus of further offline gameplay updates. It does appear that EA wants the scoreline (as someone already stated) to stay competitive no matter who you're up against. It should feel different playing against tougher teams and easier teams

This is very visible in the NHL series, in NHL 16 I would get squashed by Toronto being the weakest team, it's the game trying to balance and like many has been saying that playing Barca and playing Aston Villa feels the same (I don't have that problem in PES). Also the AI scoring at the 45th and 90th minute is noticeable, just like in the NHL series, it'll go on an unstoppable pattern to score a goal and even if you do everything to stop it the puck physics takes way anyways and even if you have a 1 goal lead going into the third it's unbearable which is why I only play 2 of the 3 periods now and quit the game in second intermission (it automatically sims the third period)- the NHL series just isn't that fun anymore.

Funny how player ratings also suddenly disappear. Alberto Moreno, 77 overall. Here I come rushing in with Bellerin and Walcott. Moreno runs behind and catches them, makes a miracle of a tackle to stop the ball and then steals it as both Bellerin and Walcott are too slow to react to the loose ball and rushes away with the ball. Both Bellerin and Walcott are too slow to catch Moreno before it's in my end, where Moreno dribbles through Bellerin and Walcott and Ramsey and Mustafi and passes to Sturridge who misses the net.

I mean what the peep Moreno you were supposed to tackle Walcott inside the box and give me a penalty as it went in RL. When did you become such a superstar

We'll never know, but I do think it's a combination of cpu buff of speed, agility, ball control, passing, and attacking, and nerfing the speed and agility of the human.

I think all of us can relate to the sudden sluggish feeling of one's squad in CM. You always feel a step behind the cpu, and the inputs feel kind of delayed and gummy. And, yeah, your team's AI seems a little wonky. Simple slow and close passes will just kind of go ignored by your players when they are only a foot or so off the mark, and there is nothing you can do to take control and get your player there in time. It's been this way for years and years.

I guess I am not alone. The difference is that I am trying to give video examples.

[ADAPTIVE_DIFFICULTY_INCREASE_DIFFICULTY]
// Description: "User scores in first 5 minutes"
// WHEN <GoalEvaluation> IF <user score is greater than opponent score and before 5 minutes> DO <increase difficulty by 0.25>
RULE1_PARAM1 = 5 // Minutes
RULE1_OUTPUT = 0.25

// Description: "User scores in first 20 minutes"
// WHEN <GoalEvaluation> IF <user score is greater than opponent score and before 20 minutes> DO <increase difficulty by 0.25>
RULE2_PARAM1 = 20 // Minutes
RULE2_OUTPUT = 0.25

// Description: "Score >= 2 goal lead"
// WHEN <GoalEvaluation> IF <user has greater than 2 goal lead> DO <increase difficulty by 0.25>
RULE3_PARAM1 = 2 // Goal lead
RULE3_OUTPUT = 0.25

// Description: ">70% possession after at least 20 minutes"
// WHEN <BallOOP> IF <user has greater than 70% of possession and after 20 minutes> DO <increase difficulty by 0.25>
RULE4_PARAM1 = 70 // Possession percentage
RULE4_PARAM2 = 20 // Minutes
RULE4_OUTPUT = 0.25

This is why in my Accrington vs Arsenal tests I ALWAYS feel cheated. User should be able to have a 1, 2, 3 etc goal lead and not being artificial penalized by it. User shouldn't be penalized for having >70% possession. That's not REALISTIC. Think about Barcelona games and you imagine how ridiculous that would be in RL.

I am stunned by some guys that call yourselves "Sim lovers" to agree with this lazy/incapable coding by EA. You are just being fanboys and bulling everyone that points the finger on EA mistakes.

I've been playing FIFA on PC for several years now, and I was perusing through the initfs_Win32 file for the game. I came upon the adaptive difficulty if anyone wants to see exactly why the game plays differently under certain conditions. Cheers.

Thanks for this thread.

Cheers!

[NinthFall]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

The thing is you can't really argue if you don't play the game.

Because I know how it feels to have lots of experience and argue about the game, because everything is currently going fine for you. You don't have the recent experience of frustration over the game, like the ones playing the game. You have flashes of how it used to be and if it went well for you, more than likely you'll forget your raging moments and your brain decides to black it out thinking it was just your lack of skill.

That's unfortunately very common in forums these days, but the truth is you have to feel the gameplay to understand what's going on. You can't see it by watching it.

To me this adaptive difficulty seems to be present a lot in career mode games, but on FUT offline games it's gone. I find FUT very easy despite of playing with the same difficulty, it must have something to do with the league tables and stats of career mode. Like the game is trying to prevent one certain player of reaching 50 goals a season or a team winning 5-0 every game. You can do that in FUT, but not in career mode on harder difficulties.

[ricardodc]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

BARCELONA vs CELTIC (Real life 2016 CL)

2' - Barcelona Goal » (FIFA 17 Barcelona increase difficulty by 0.25)

20' - Barcelona 72,5% possession » (FIFA 17 Barcelona increase difficulty by 0.25)

26' - Barcelona Goal » (FIFA 17 Barcelona increase difficulty by 0.25)

Half-time 2-0 Barcelona 73,8% possession

Full-time 7-0, Barcelona 71,8% possession


I see no FIFA 17 Adaptive Difficulty in RL. Playing FIFA 17 offline vs IA, EA will keep you in their balancing bounds, unless you are too good to counter all that balancing coding.

You don't mind? Fine. But don't try to deny it. Don't try to silent the ones that are bothered. Don't try to blame human ability.
I will keep posting videos if I want to. If you don't like it, don't watch. Ignore. Go back to your own reality and be happy.

[Gonira]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

you're confusing things.

i'm totally against adaptive ai in this game, especially in the way it is implemented in this file. it's lazy, screams artificial, makes harder for huge performance gaps that should exist, it forces draws, it is bad. at the very least they should put an option to turn it off on the settings screen.

i'm only criticizing your videos where you make a huge deal about totally ordinary plays where you just hand it to the cpu and don't want to be penalized for it. if you want to make a point in a video, please, be substantial at least. otherwise you're just a whiner.

and once again, if i can't judge a play for a video and what i know about football, fifa and physics, then don't post the video because it is worthless. and if you only accept opinions that agree with you and everyone else that disagrees should remain silent, mate, this is not how life works.

[Matt10]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

you're confusing things.

i'm totally against adaptive ai in this game, especially in the way it is implemented in this file. it's lazy, screams artificial, makes harder for huge performance gaps that should exist, it forces draws, it is bad. at the very least they should put an option to turn it off on the settings screen.

i'm only criticizing your videos where you make a huge deal about totally ordinary plays where you just hand it to the cpu and don't want to be penalized for it. if you want to make a point in a video, please, be substantial at least. otherwise you're just a whiner.

and once again, if i can't judge a play for a video and what i know about football, fifa and physics, then don't post the video because it is worthless. and if you only accept opinions that agree with you and everyone else that disagrees should remain silent, mate, this is not how life works.

This is pretty spot on, honestly.

Ricardo, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that adaptive AI doesn't exist. However, all of the videos posted are taken out of context, and then, they are posted in a thread that only has the "out of context" mentality in hand - because we weren't there to watch the entire match with you. Does that make sense?

A great example is a match I streamed, post-patch update, between Stoke (me) and Burnley in the EFL. I lost 2-1 in extra time...to 9-men. Out of context that sounds like CPU cheat and adaptive AI. However, the match was by far one of the best I've ever played on FIFA. I couldnt' convert and couldn't set up my chances. Here's the match (Burnley starts at 1:26:00)

https://www.twitch.tv/matt10l/v/100253632

Ninth, regarding watching vs playing, most of the time it doesn't matter. We're all footy fans, we know what looks right and what doesn't, from a base fundamentals, etc. The only area I would agree that it would matter is if there was a malfunction like a controller button not responding, etc.

Lastly, the comparison of real life vs FIFA results, is a tough negotiation. The problem that I see a lot of people post are the final scores, or goals, and use that data as a means to accomplish their agenda of confirming Adaptive AI.

Think Adaptive AI more like a smart AI to RECOGNIZE the situation at hand. Where it would take 20-30 minutes for a team to get into the flow of a match, and recognize how that match is going, FIFA has to reproduce this in a matter of 5-10 minutes, tops. How else, other than coded Adaptive AI could this be accomplished?

I've said it multiple times this year, the comeback code AI of previous years occurs much less than before. I do think the CPU's over-use of the drilled pass, and intent to constantly push forward-forward in the defensive third, contributes to a lot of issues, and if you're open to slider modification, then that would be an area to focus on to further enjoy the game.

[Gonira]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

correcting myself. i'm not absolutely against adaptive ai. i think it would be wonderful to have an ai that would organically react to situations of the game and how the human opponent is playing, but TACTICALLY. fifa tries to do this poorly, in a very stiff, two-dimensional way. pes 2017 claims to do it well. i'm skeptical, but it's awesome if they really could achieve it.

what i am against is an in-game auto switch in difficulty level based on game stats, aka rubber-band ai, and this is what the codes posted in the op seem to do, if i understood them well. this is not realistic, it's just the game trying to force balance between two teams even when they shouldn't be balanced.

[NinthFall]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

Ninth, regarding watching vs playing, most of the time it doesn't matter. We're all footy fans, we know what looks right and what doesn't, from a base fundamentals, etc. The only area I would agree that it would matter is if there was a malfunction like a controller button not responding, etc.

That is not true, because when you play the game you can feel how suddenly in one match the same players react very differently than they did before. That's when you start feeling like nothing is going according to plan, everyone's moving slow, reacting slow and just nothing's clicking. You can't show that on a video clip, everyone will just criticize your playing. I've seen it happen all too often...

I understand that fatigued players, etc. of course need lowered attributes, but this happens randomly sometimes to fully fit teams in excellent form. Tends to happen if you're on a longer winning streak especially (in career mode, not so much in FUT).

[Matt10]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

That is not true, because when you play the game you can feel how suddenly in one match the same players react very differently than they did before. That's when you start feeling like nothing is going according to plan, everyone's moving slow, reacting slow and just nothing's clicking. You can't show that on a video clip, everyone will just criticize your playing. I've seen it happen all too often...

I understand that fatigued players, etc. of course need lowered attributes, but this happens randomly sometimes to fully fit teams in excellent form. Tends to happen if you're on a longer winning streak especially (in career mode, not so much in FUT).

That's a tough call though, and not the easiest of arguments because it can't be proven, right? It can also happen the other way around. For me, personally, that's not a big issue - if it is one - because it introduces another layer of realism. There are teams, regardless of streak (winning or losing) that either suddenly break down, or suddenly pump up. I think that's just sports in general. However, yes, it depends entirely on your perspective. If you want to think the CPU is going to break you down through dastardly means, then that will most likely happen, if you accept that this a scripted/coded video game, and you will be challenged, it's up to you to interpret if that's realistic or not. There are too many variables to count, and it's why threads like this often turn into "Me vs You" conversations.

As a former player, I like the videos too, but I'm always going to be someone who puts the responsibility, of interpreted shortcomings/scripting, back on the user.

[ricardodc]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty



Translating:

Congratulations! You may have mastered Professional level. For a more challenging experience, we suggest you to change to World Class.

Do you want to change it now?

- Yes
- No
- Disable dynamic difficulty adjustment


I only beat Accrington (1*) 6-0 with Arsenal (5*). For EA that's too much... I chose the 3rd option. What it does?

[Matt10]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

Translating:

You have mastered Professional level... Do you want to change to World Class?

- Yes
- No
- Disable dynamic difficulty adjustment


I only beat Accrington 6-0 with Arsenal. For EA that's too much...

Dynamic difficulty adjustment is merely your profile changing from Pro to World Class as a difficulty preference. How is this relative to the topic?

[ricardodc]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

Dynamic difficulty adjustment is merely your profile changing from Pro to World Class as a difficulty preference. How is this relative to the topic?

Thanks! Too bad... I was hoping it had something to do with the "Adaptive Difficulty". So... I guess it's not related to the topic. Why do you ask?

[Matt10]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

Thanks! Too bad... I was hoping it had something to do with the "Adaptive Difficulty". So... I guess it's not related to the topic. Why?

When I saw the screenshot, I thought "Cool, some UI that shows there is actual adaptive difficulty", then I saw the Dynamic Difficulty adjustment prompt. Pretty sure this is what comes up when you first load the game for the first time, and you've signed in to EA servers,etc, it just finds your previous difficulty of previous FIFA titles.

[Gonira]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

no, matt. it seems to really be something that pops up whenever you win a game by a huge margin, asking if you want to turn difficulty level a step higher.

as it is an adjustment between games and not on the course of a single match, i believe it's a different thing and it won't deactivate the issue being discussed here. but i would selected the 3rd option anyway, just in case.

[Matt10]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

no, matt. it seems to really be something that pops up whenever you win a game by a huge margin, asking if you want to turn difficulty level a step higher.

as it is an adjustment between games and not on the course of a single match, i believe it's a different thing and it won't deactivate the issue being discussed here. but i would selected the 3rd option anyway, just in case.

Well yeah, it comes up in that instance, and then when FIFA 18 comes out, and you're logged into the EA Servers, that difficulty that you were using, will follow your profile. Just like it auto-chooses your favorite club, etc.

I honestly think it's more of a profile thing, and the option triggers on in those two instances, obviously the screenshot one is of higher probability to increase, depending on where you start in difficulty.

[ricardodc]

Re: Adaptive Difficulty

no, matt. it seems to really be something that pops up whenever you win a game by a huge margin, asking if you want to turn difficulty level a step higher.

as it is an adjustment between games and not on the course of a single match, i believe it's a different thing and it won't deactivate the issue being discussed here. but i would selected the 3rd option anyway, just in case.

I selected the 3rd option. I will report if I feel anything different related to the topic.

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