Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

**Spora** · 04-17-2017, 02:21 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Papinho here posted pretty much what I was thinking about A/D levels so I'm just going to post some thoughts I have.

I think the A/D levels mostly affect numbers in attack/defense by moving players higher/lower on the field in a pretty straight forward way. Also there seems to be some effect on player aggressiveness depending on the level. I haven't noticed any other effects except some changes at max ATT level when GK and CB might join attack or corners.

When choosing A/D levels some thought should be put on formations and other tactical options. What I mean by that is that if a team's game plan already has a low defensive line it could be overkill to put them on blue def level. Also I wouldn't use too much blue A/D levels and especially blue attack level. I just think the game plays better and more realistically with higher levels. On the other hand orange defense level could drain teams stamina too fast in some cases.

**papinho81** · 04-22-2017, 04:28 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

I have been trying to find the pattern that makes underdogs starting their games on G/G instead of their default ATT/DEF level during league games (doesn't seem to happen on cup ties) but I didn't manage to clearly identify it.

I thought that your team had to be 4.5 stars or plus and the cpu team 4 or less, but starting with Everton (4.5 stars in my game) against Swansea (4 stars) they started with their default A/D.

I then thought that you might need at least a full star of difference but using Man city (4.5) against West Ham (4) they started on G/G.
But with Inter (4.5) against Torino (4) they started with their default A/D.

Also using FC Porto (4.5) against Boavista (2) they started on default A/D.

Do you have any idea of what could be the pattern behind that, team starting on G/G instead of their default level?

**Saipopomax** · 04-22-2017, 09:37 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Papinho, how did you get att/deff G/O?

**papinho81** · 04-22-2017, 09:48 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by Saipopomax

Papinho, how did you get att/deff G/O?

SAVE/LOAD Colombia tactic. It is in the opening post.

Sorry I didn't realize the OP is very long.
It is the 1st paragraph of the section solution fro the method and the last part of the post to find where to get the different ATT/DEF configs.

**Saipopomax** · 04-22-2017, 10:13 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by papinho81

SAVE/LOAD Colombia tactic. It is in the opening post.

Sorry I didn't realize the OP is very long.
It is the 1st paragraph of the section solution fro the method and the last part of the post to find where to get the different ATT/DEF configs.

B/O is from which team? thanks

**papinho81** · 04-22-2017, 10:47 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by Saipopomax

B/O is from which team?

This one is extremely rare and has only been assigned to fake team so that it is not straightforward to find. I can tell you that one is in a German team of the PEU league (Bundesliga now for me) and another is in the PLA league (default name: Marribohua).

If you have the Bundesliga in your OF is suggest you to start exhibition games with team from that league until you find it. It is very likely that the OF maker used a fake team based in Germany to create one of the BL teams (mine is Wolfsburg from Erzo77).

**kilay** · 04-22-2017, 12:41 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by papinho81

I have been trying to find the pattern that makes underdogs starting their games on G/G instead of their default ATT/DEF level during league games (doesn't seem to happen on cup ties) but I didn't manage to clearly identify it.

I thought that your team had to be 4.5 stars or plus and the cpu team 4 or less, but starting with Everton (4.5 stars in my game) against Swansea (4 stars) they started with their default A/D.

I then thought that you might need at least a full star of difference but using Man city (4.5) against West Ham (4) they started on G/G.
But with Inter (4.5) against Torino (4) they started with their default A/D.

Also using FC Porto (4.5) against Boavista (2) they started on default A/D.

Do you have any idea of what could be the pattern behind that, team starting on G/G instead of their default level?

check this files with notepad++ some info about the logic are here, anyway there a lot to investigate, i talked with a lot pc users that have tried to change coachattack level but wihout success.

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**papinho81** · 04-22-2017, 04:27 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by kilay

check this files with notepad++ some info about the logic are here, anyway there a lot to investigate, i talked with a lot pc users that have tried to change coachattack level but wihout success.

https://mega.nz/#!esJATS6A!l8Ux5PYSs...0_654IpkdwQkVw

Thanks kilay!

I used to edit xml files from time to time in my previous job but for a very different and specific type of applications (phylogenetic analyses) so I am not really getting the logic behind those PES xml files.

**papinho81** · 04-26-2017, 12:53 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

While implementing the various ATT/DEF levels for the teams I have already done the tactic for, I have noticed or at least had the feeling that teams having a GREEN ATT level where playing a more pleasant possession football than those having an ORANGE ATT level. It is like if in GREEN the player with ball was thinking more instead of rushing forward leading to a less vertical and chaotic build up (less player without the ball rushing in the last third might also contribute to that).

So I have decided to give a comparison with the Barca using always the same tactic but alternating ATT/DEF level switching from O/O and G/O. I played repeatedly the first half of the first liga game using Betis Sevilla and making sure that Barca was starting its best eleven. In the spoiler you can see a table with the stats for 4 iterations under each of the two ATT/DEF levels and their respective means (two last columns).

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

Spoiler

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

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oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>FR</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I concede it is a lot of numbers for a not really striking contrast. Only possession stats are substantially higher for G/O. Pass accuracy is very similar between the two. Defensive stats are almost identical with the exception of the chances and chances converted for the user that are higher on O/O which can let us think that Barca defense is more vulnerable on O/O than on G/O (which makes sense). Offensively, only the crosses are higher on O/O which is likely the outcome of the higher contribution of the fullbacks to the offensive part of the game (on G/O FBs still contribute a lot).

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->This is a very small sample size (n=8) that prevent any early conclusion, but I think it tends to support my impression, that Green in ATT still makes team playing a dangerous offensive game but with a more patient approach also without scarifying to much the back line.

In addition, I feel like CPU players movement are more natural on GREEN (or lower), they move less like ants if you see what I mean. Their shots are less often perfect bullets. I mean Iniesta volleys looks more often like Iniesta volleys. No offense to this amazing player, but shooting is really not one of its many strength.

If you never tried G/O I would recommend you to give it a try it has been working really well for me.

**Saipopomax** · 04-30-2017, 04:22 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

I've tried G/O and its pretty good. The problem is I dont know each team playing style so its difficult for me to edit each team's tactic in terms of formation, long ball/short pass, counter/possesion, etc. May I know where can I get this informations such as website, etc. ?

**kilay** · 05-01-2017, 11:27 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by Saipopomax

I've tried G/O and its pretty good. The problem is I dont know each team playing style so its difficult for me to edit each team's tactic in terms of formation, long ball/short pass, counter/possesion, etc. May I know where can I get this informations such as website, etc. ?

whoscored i think is the best about statistic and tactics
also transfermarket and goal (just for unknown teams at least you can see some formation disposal).
Add .com after any site name to get the right link

**ZeroTheHero** · 05-20-2017, 10:34 AM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by kilay

Just to know, try to check these teams, should have different behavior

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...6&postcount=55

On PC you can just rename these files to correspond to teams you're not using in the OF. Not sure if you can remove them entirely, but you can also just import a "neutral" one in place for those you don't like and assign that one to one of the South American fake teams, for example. If you want to
relocate the team ID from Arsenal to ZAGREPAQU, just export it, rename it to team_id_04046.bin and import it instead of team_id_01010.bin.

Alternatively, you can just delete the instruction ID's that each of the team instructions refer to within the team_id files, which are found in the json section.

All this being said, the AI seems to largely adjust their A/D levels based on your team's A/D levels. So if you either use manual A/D settings or "base copy" green/Orange from Colombia (or the one you want) the CPU seems to react accordingly. This opens up the game a whole lot and brings lots of good situations and very little repetition. Not sure how this pans out in BAL mode, but I've already gotten rid of all the O/B settings in PL, and the matches are really fun.

I always stayed away from PL due to the matches being largely boring, so thanks for figuring out why.

PS. If some (or all) of this has already been mentioned, I'm sorry. I couldn't be arsed to read through 6 pages of posts.

**kilay** · 05-20-2017, 08:52 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by ZeroTheHero

On PC you can just rename these files to correspond to teams you're not using in the OF. Not sure if you can remove them entirely, but you can also just import a "neutral" one in place for those you don't like and assign that one to one of the South American fake teams, for example. If you want to
relocate the team ID from Arsenal to ZAGREPAQU, just export it, rename it to team_id_04046.bin and import it instead of team_id_01010.bin.

Alternatively, you can just delete the instruction ID's that each of the team instructions refer to within the team_id files, which are found in the json section.

All this being said, the AI seems to largely adjust their A/D levels based on your team's A/D levels. So if you either use manual A/D settings or "base copy" green/Orange from Colombia (or the one you want) the CPU seems to react accordingly. This opens up the game a whole lot and brings lots of good situations and very little repetition. Not sure how this pans out in BAL mode, but I've already gotten rid of all the O/B settings in PL, and the matches are really fun.

I always stayed away from PL due to the matches being largely boring, so thanks for figuring out why.

PS. If some (or all) of this has already been mentioned, I'm sorry. I couldn't be arsed to read through 6 pages of posts.

Thnks, good to know.
My idea was pretty the same, but would like to act over those file (tactics exported)

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so just copy an paste to a different tactics is required to change to the teams behavior without change the whole disposal.. but i need to test it better, nesa said that i'm right so i think could be the right and more quick method to change all my tacts without spend too much time. that parts.. (tested and something changes)

**ZeroTheHero** · 05-20-2017, 09:02 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

I was thinking of just exporting the team_id_01010.bin if it bothered you. I've gotten Tottenham to play with very offensive backs without using Advanced setting (or side midfield) by copying Real Madrid's (I think it was) team ID, deleting Everton's and insert one that corresponds with Spurs' team ID.

But if Nesa says you're right, you are probably right.

**kilay** · 05-20-2017, 10:48 PM

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Originally posted by ZeroTheHero

I was thinking of just exporting the team_id_01010.bin if it bothered you. I've gotten Tottenham to play with very offensive backs without using Advanced setting (or side midfield) by copying Real Madrid's (I think it was) team ID, deleting Everton's and insert one that corresponds with Spurs' team ID.

But if Nesa says you're right, you are probably right.

there are some bit that control that, not bytes, so is difficult catch the right value to change, but i can isolate that in some way.
You idea is also right... but that require to rebuild the whole tacts.
I like my tatcs but i hate the teams behavior (unfortunately i've used the monaco B/B as base to create a a common 4-3-3 imported over many teams) so i need to change a lot of teams... and that way seems the quickest.

Now changing those 5 couple i can change the behavior but that change also support range, def line compatctness and maybe possession\counter or wide\center (i need to test a bit)

Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

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