Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

I just wanted Tottenham to play with offensive backs when CPU controlled as well. Recreating their behavior when you're using them in ML is much easier. I am actually trying to set my game up for a proper BAL experience. Once I've gotten the most important teams to play "as they should" I'm going to start a career.

I am struggling with Barcelona, they are too vulnerable in defense when controlled by CPU. Anyway my #1 priority is making good teams effective and #2 priority is to make them play somewhat as they do in real life without sacrificing effectiveness. I've managed to do it with Real Madrid, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, Manchester City (and so on) but for some reason Barcelona is just way too weak in defense. I always score ~5 goals against them.

A main issue when creating tactics for teams that play overwhelming football (Bayern, Barca etc.) is that a major reason why they can do what they do is because opponents usually retreat into a very defensive strategy against them. That doesn't happen in PES, and the good players aren't "good enough" to force opponents down like they often do in real life.

In PES 2016 I created an OF that was intended to use as Barcelona, where I made all teams except Barcelona play more or less defensive football. That worked to some extent but the main problem was that all teams produced very few goals in the generated background matches, so the league tables were a bit unrealistic. The individual matches that I played with Barcelona either in BAL or ML were very realistic.

[kilay]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

I just wanted Tottenham to play with offensive backs when CPU controlled as well. Recreating their behavior when you're using them in ML is much easier. I am actually trying to set my game up for a proper BAL experience. Once I've gotten the most important teams to play "as they should" I'm going to start a career.

I am struggling with Barcelona, they are too vulnerable in defense when controlled by CPU. Anyway my #1 priority is making good teams effective and #2 priority is to make them play somewhat as they do in real life without sacrificing effectiveness. I've managed to do it with Real Madrid, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, Manchester City (and so on) but for some reason Barcelona is just way too weak in defense. I always score ~5 goals against them.

A main issue when creating tactics for teams that play overwhelming football (Bayern, Barca etc.) is that a major reason why they can do what they do is because opponents usually retreat into a very defensive strategy against them. That doesn't happen in PES, and the good players aren't "good enough" to force opponents down like they often do in real life.

In PES 2016 I created an OF that was intended to use as Barcelona, where I made all teams except Barcelona play more or less defensive football. That worked to some extent but the main problem was that all teams produced very few goals in the generated background matches, so the league tables were a bit unrealistic. The individual matches that I played with Barcelona either in BAL or ML were very realistic.

I'm pretty sure that the main issue with barca is the absurd combo deep def line + offensive wingbacks...

in the next day i will investigate over that, anyway if you merge both my higlighted strings you will get the full behavior (att/def in the second screen and hidden advanced tactis behavior in the first screen )

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

That tool is just amazing, thanks for sharing!

[kilay]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Hey Pap, have you a list with your idea of right ATT/DEF behaviors for some teams?

[papinho81]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Hey Pap, have you a sort of list with your idea of right ATT/DEF behaviors for some teams?

Hi kilay!

Yes, I have spreadsheets with tactic information for the bigger leagues in Europe that also contain the ATT/DEF for every team in the league.

Every setting as been computed based on real stats using whoscore website and updated last month. The "Row_table" show the kind of source I used (I simply pasted the tables from whoscore), "League_summ" is for the stat extraction and the setting computation where you can find the formula (continuous settings such as line height) and the cut off (discrete settings such as pressure) I used. Finally the other sheets store the info for each league once computed.

As for the ATT I used the % of time a team spend in the opposition last third corrected by the average tendency of the team in the league to spend time in their own last third.

For the DEF I used the same stat I used for the pressuring setting, the number of tackles attempted by a team corrected for a 50% ball possession to account for the fact that defensive event only happens when the team do not have the ball. I used a cut off of 27 to make team aggressive or conservative, bellow 25 team are BLUE, bellow 29 GREEN and above 29 ORANGE.

Despite some teams have ATT set to ORANGE, I do not recommend using the ORANGE in attack at all as it make the cpu attack more frantic. So when you see ORANGE in attack just set it in GREEN.

You can download the tables here:

Spoiler

http://www.mediafire.com/file/vihek7hqy0vw6ap/Tactic_spreadsheets.zip

[kilay]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Great pap thnks you so much..

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Orange attack levels means almost no passes going backwards.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Have you figured out what the different values on line 90 actually does?

In BAL mode I've noticed that using USA or Colombia as base (G/O), means your team goes ultra defensive in second half if you're at a draw or leading. Colombia base sets deep defensive line Advanced Option on, even if the team strategy is high line, which re-creates the Barcelona issue. Does the manager matter in these decisions as well?

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

I used Hex Workshop and reworked all the A/D levels for all PL formations based on the import/exports you shared, Kilay. Using the spreadsheets Papino shared, I just went with Green attack instead of Orange. I notice several prominent changes in the game, most of them good. The only negative issue I've noticed is that catch-up is more prominent due to the naturally slower paced matches.

BAL mode is somewhat better as you won't get knocked around the pitch with a fresh youngster unless you're seeking those areas where these things happen in real life too (centrally in the "Maradona" area). Both teams seems focused on keeping a good defensive shape and having decent cover, which makes it rather hard to break down and score. I assume the added realism will stick as your player progress because it's the defensive team shapes rather than difference in skill that makes it difficult.

In ML the changes are much more noticeable. The matches seems more like tactical chess games than before, but the total ineptness of your players still occur from time to time, where they seem to lose half their technique, passing accuracy and response. The only way to counter that part is to keep the ball moving from player to player, and that's much easier due to the much smarter positioning provided by these formations. I've actually managed to score several goals during these periods.

All these tests were conducted using unmodded Top Player difficulty. The AI cheating is much less noticeable if you modify "Professional" or even "Regular" to match the Superstar difficulty in most areas. At "Regular" opponent teams seems less interested in going all in for a goal when trailing, though, so I'm using modded Professional for the most part.

Even though we still have a way to go, the improvement is noteworthy. Well done guys!

[toyo301985]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Hi kilay!

Yes, I have spreadsheets with tactic information for the bigger leagues in Europe that also contain the ATT/DEF for every team in the league.

Every setting as been computed based on real stats using whoscore website and updated last month. The "Row_table" show the kind of source I used (I simply pasted the tables from whoscore), "League_summ" is for the stat extraction and the setting computation where you can find the formula (continuous settings such as line height) and the cut off (discrete settings such as pressure) I used. Finally the other sheets store the info for each league once computed.

As for the ATT I used the % of time a team spend in the opposition last third corrected by the average tendency of the team in the league to spend time in their own last third.

For the DEF I used the same stat I used for the pressuring setting, the number of tackles attempted by a team corrected for a 50% ball possession to account for the fact that defensive event only happens when the team do not have the ball. I used a cut off of 27 to make team aggressive or conservative, bellow 25 team are BLUE, bellow 29 GREEN and above 29 ORANGE.

Despite some teams have ATT set to ORANGE, I do not recommend using the ORANGE in attack at all as it make the cpu attack more frantic. So when you see ORANGE in attack just set it in GREEN.

You can download the tables here:

Spoiler

http://www.mediafire.com/file/vihek7hqy0vw6ap/Tactic_spreadsheets.zip

Thanks for this Pap. My question is, how can I implement this on an option file?

[kilay]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Here a little table about championship , according with your main line... maybe some little tweaks are required but should work fine whatever

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Managed to get Barcelona to perform better against me with these settings. I've made Messi and Neymar "Playmaker" style and removed all but one CPU setting on their dribbling. I've made Rakitic a "Destroyer" and Inieste a "Classic 10". All the other midfielders have one of the two, to make them stay around the box in a more Barcelona-like fashion. The settings not mentioned here are unchanged from normal barcelona settings. I have their A/D set at G/O.

Neymar could probably use a better player style setting to make him arrive a little earlier in the box. I'll gladly take suggestions.

Since Barcelona has changed their formation back and forth this season, this is as "correct" as any other. Since they have 3 defenders at all times, they seem to do well in background generated matches in ML as well, and in my game there's a dogfight between Real Madrid and Barcelona for the title like it should be.




EDIT: To bring Messi more into play, make him switch position with Suarez when in possession and pull him back to SS and push Neymar and Suarez up as CF on each side. This will emulate more how they played to demolish PSG in the epic comeback in this years CL.

[papinho81]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Thanks for this Pap. My question is, how can I implement this on an option file?

Hi and sorry for the late answer.

I am not sure I get exactly your question.
If you meant how can I put that into my game then you can go do what I did, edit one by one all the teams using the OP recommendations.
If you meant how can I convert the dat in the xls file into data in the bin files, I have no idea.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Bumping this thread due to many of the post in here are even more relevant to PES 18.

[kilay]

Re: Riding PES rainbow (exploring and describing the ATTACK/DEFENSE levels).

Bumping this thread due to many of the post in here are even more relevant to PES 18.

Great royce, sure this post should be sticked, it's really useful, but this gameplay is horrible, without a patch is unplayable...

Central defender beahviors is worst then last year, sorry i'm refusing to play this game atm, squad advance and CB retreat??? And Liverpool in El and Milan in CL ??? NO, sorry i'm disgusting about that, a couple of guys with a little knowledge over soccer/fotball are for sure better then all the team, probably i'm stick to FM and forgot me KONAMI, you will never seen a single euro from me.. Really ashamed