***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

[darweezee]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

*snip*

I believe Arsenal were playing 4-2-3-1 with VP as our main, sole striker. VPs sending off in the 56th minute definitely hampered our chances to even compete and stretch the Barca defense. Just before the joke sending off, the Gunners looked more confident with their triangle passes. Thereafter, we put 10 men behind the ball for 35+ minutes which completely gave Barca more advantage than what their technical superiority needed.

After watching the 1st-leg tie twice, Arsenal didn't start to attack successfully until the 65th-70th minute of the match. I have a feeling Mr. Wenger tried approaching the 2nd-leg the same way. He tried to keep it close and use our superior stamina from our youngsters later in the match. He had the same substitutions, Arshavin and Bendtner, but without VP and 10 men it was useless.

It may wrong to base the match solely on stats such as shots on goal and possession, Barca were never booked and I can clearly say that they didn't play like saints. The refereeing could have been much better and it totally robbed footballing fans from what could have been a masterpiece of a match. Maybe the Spanish mafia stepped in to pay their debts *cough*

In the end, Arsenal wouldn't have been able to win the CL. It's better to lose in this way now than later in the tourney. I was gutted after the Carling Cup loss to Birmingham and it took a few days to recover. Best of luck in the Premiership and FA Cup. Arsenal till I die. I'm Arsenal till I die. I know I am. I'm sure I am. I'm Arsenal till I die!

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

I believe Arsenal were playing 4-2-3-1 with VP as our main, sole striker. VPs sending off in the 56th minute definitely hampered our chances to even compete and stretch the Barca defense. Just before the joke sending off, the Gunners looked more confident with their triangle passes. Thereafter, we put 10 men behind the ball for 35+ minutes which completely gave Barca more advantage than what their technical superiority needed.

After watching the 1st-leg tie twice, Arsenal didn't start to attack successfully until the 65th-70th minute of the match. I have a feeling Mr. Wenger tried approaching the 2nd-leg the same way. He tried to keep it close and use our superior stamina from our youngsters later in the match. He had the same substitutions, Arshavin and Bendtner, but without VP and 10 men it was useless.

It may wrong to base the match solely on stats such as shots on goal and possession, Barca were never booked and I can clearly say that they didn't play like saints. The refereeing could have been much better and it totally robbed footballing fans from what could have been a masterpiece of a match. Maybe the Spanish mafia stepped in to pay their debts *cough*

In the end, Arsenal wouldn't have been able to win the CL. It's better to lose in this way now than later in the tourney. I was gutted after the Carling Cup loss to Birmingham and it took a few days to recover. Best of luck in the Premiership and FA Cup. Arsenal till I die. I'm Arsenal till I die. I know I am. I'm sure I am. I'm Arsenal till I die!

I didn't even realize Barca were not booked until you just said that. Wow. I'm not saying there was anything close to a fix, but the refereeing was just plain awful. To be that unbalanced is just sad.

[misterbroom12]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Another thing that gets to me about this game is all the pundits and people talking about our lack of a single shot and how Barca completely dominated us and that we had no shot at winning, even with RvP on the field. The same people who bash this Arsenal team for games like Newcastle, Wigan and even Sunderland and go on and on and on about how the result is all that matters. Arsenal should be able to put teams like this away blah blah blah. But when it comes to Arsenal setting out for a 2nd leg match at Camp Nou and plan to keep Barca at bay for as long as possible and only attack when it presents itself, they become the team that was outclassed and put to shame. We conceded once (poorly I may add) in the first half with 11 men, who's to say we would not have repeated or bettered that feat in the 2nd? It seems that Arsenal are just a target for some people, no matter how they approach a game they are at fault. Sad really.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Another thing that gets to me about this game is all the pundits and people talking about our lack of a single shot and how Barca completely dominated us and that we had no shot at winning, even with RvP on the field. The same people who bash this Arsenal team for games like Newcastle, Wigan and even Sunderland and go on and on and on about how the result is all that matters. Arsenal should be able to put teams like this away blah blah blah. But when it comes to Arsenal setting out for a 2nd leg match at Camp Nou and plan to keep Barca at bay for as long as possible and only attack when it presents itself, they become the team that was outclassed and put to shame. We conceded once (poorly I may add) in the first half with 11 men, who's to say we would not have repeated or bettered that feat in the 2nd? It seems that Arsenal are just a target for some people, no matter how they approach a game they are at fault. Sad really.

We were a bad touch from Bendtner and a good play from Mascherano away from going through and it would've been interesting to see what they would've said then. I'm sure it would've been we didn't deserve it and were lucky.

Even though we gave up three goals and one was an absolute gift, we defended brilliantly last night. Barca had tons of passes, but they always do. That stat will never impress or shock me. They play so many tiny quick passes just as a way to hold the ball and not go forward, that the passing stats against them will always be skewed. I think our defending is why they never looked at their sharpest, though. They held the ball and held the ball, but we played rather well and forced them to pass a lot as well. We didn't let them just hold it in our half, we made them move it in our half.

It was always going to be a tough game going in and I think we obviously could've been better in some aspects, but I'm still proud of how we played. I'm disgusted by the horribly skewed bookings and decisions, but we can't do anything about now.

Let's just go beat United.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

No, **** that. I'm going to keep bitching. Why? Well, where is Abidal's deserved red card in the first half?



Utter bull****.

Also, RVP's first yellow was not a yellow. MINIMAL contact and Alves went down and showed the gamesmanship of Barcelona. You know, the same kind they were showing when yelling at Wilshere to get up because he wasn't injured.

[KG]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

To say it didn't change the game is foolish and you know it. Come on, man. Going down to 10 men doesn't change a game? Despite their dominance in possession, losing your best goal scorer and a threat which makes the already shaky Barca CB's stay back changes the game.

Do I think we would've won if RVP stayed on? We had a better chance, but it was still going to be a small one.

Also, I'm not saying it cost us the game, because it did not, but the refereeing in general was an absolute and utter comedy show. It started off with Alves' tackle on Nasri in the first half. He won the ball, but then blatantly clamped his legs together forcing Nasri down. I believe that has been known as a scissor tackle all season. Winning the ball and then fouling someone is still a foul. But I expect nothing else from the classless pile of **** that is Alves.

Second, it seemed as if players were allowed to just clatter into each other all game, while then falling over each other and nothing was called. This goes for both sides. The refereeing continued to be a joke.

Then, RVP's red card. People can argue all ****ing day and night about whether or not his sending off impacted the game, but it was not a red card. Period. That rule is meant for time wasting. Cases where it's evident a player is simply kicking a ball away knowingly. RVP was taking a shot on goal.

As for his first yellow, I have no issue with him wanting to lash out at someone after Abidal grabbed him by the throat and shoved him. Where was the red card on that? Perhaps that would've changed the game. ****ing joke.

Bottom line is Barca played exceptionally well, but there were calls and missed calls throughout the game that had an impact on it. More than they should have.

While I would love to beat Barca, as I loathe them, our exit in this competition was inevitable. I'd much rather focus on the league, which we have a real chance of winning. We were never going to win the CL this season, so I'd rather be out now than suffer a loss later in the competition.

You guys didn't mount any serious attacks when RVP was in there and couldn't get him any service. He was playing as a link-up man with no one to link-up with or to get him the ball.

You guys played 10 behind the ball with him in there and continued to do so without him. Their gameplan was still the same as it always is, dominate the possession in the MF, get their WB's high up the pitch, look for diagonals, let Messi drop back deep to get a touch, etc... None of that changed when RVP got the boot except Mascherano dropped back a little and Busquets went higher up the pitch and more into his normal role.

Arsenal won the first leg and previous encounters in the later stages but the fitness of RVP and Cesc was always going to be an issue in this one and you know they weren't going to be playing off the counter as effectively as they did last time because of the absence of Theo. If that was Arsene's plan going into it then I question the decision to start Cesc & RVP when they were incapable of going 90. If you're going to sit back, defend (which they did more than the 1st leg where they pressed like hell) and try to win it in the later stages then why not have these guys come off the bench and provide a spark.

I think I would have gone with Bendtner from the start and play long balls to him in the air and attack Barca that way. With how they press, a less than full-fit Cesc, and no ball-winner (Song's absence) in the MF besides Wilshire it was inevitable.

As a somewhat neutral fan I feel like I was short-changed this second leg by all of the injuries. It could have been a classic 2nd leg.

[Dunston14]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

Am I the only one tired of Cesc? He is always hurt and after the game mentioned that he knew after 20 minutes he was hurt. Wilshire played is butt off and seems to me to be more of a leader. The red card on RVP was insane. I have become a Gunner fan the last couple years, but I now know that I am a true fan cause yesterday I was using 4 letter words during most of the games. Finally does Rosicky have naked pictures of Wenger somewhere?? He is awful. He is an attacking mid that can't play D and attacks poorly. I have never seen him do anything that impressed me. Just my 2 Cents

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

You guys didn't mount any serious attacks when RVP was in there and couldn't get him any service. He was playing as a link-up man with no one to link-up with or to get him the ball.

You guys played 10 behind the ball with him in there and continued to do so without him. Their gameplan was still the same as it always is, dominate the possession in the MF, get their WB's high up the pitch, look for diagonals, let Messi drop back deep to get a touch, etc... None of that changed when RVP got the boot except Mascherano dropped back a little and Busquets went higher up the pitch and more into his normal role.

Arsenal won the first leg and previous encounters in the later stages but the fitness of RVP and Cesc was always going to be an issue in this one and you know they weren't going to be playing off the counter as effectively as they did last time because of the absence of Theo. If that was Arsene's plan going into it then I question the decision to start Cesc & RVP when they were incapable of going 90. If you're going to sit back, defend (which they did more than the 1st leg where they pressed like hell) and try to win it in the later stages then why not have these guys come off the bench and provide a spark.

I think I would have gone with Bendtner from the start and play long balls to him in the air and attack Barca that way. With how they press, a less than full-fit Cesc, and no ball-winner (Song's absence) in the MF besides Wilshire it was inevitable.

As a somewhat neutral fan I feel like I was short-changed this second leg by all of the injuries. It could have been a classic 2nd leg.

You should've felt short changed by the referee's calls as well.

Am I the only one tired of Cesc? He is always hurt and after the game mentioned that he knew after 20 minutes he was hurt. Wilshire played is butt off and seems to me to be more of a leader. The red card on RVP was insane. I have become a Gunner fan the last couple years, but I now know that I am a true fan cause yesterday I was using 4 letter words during most of the games. Finally does Rosicky have naked pictures of Wenger somewhere?? He is awful. He is an attacking mid that can't play D and attacks poorly. I have never seen him do anything that impressed me. Just my 2 Cents

Yes, you're the only one tired of our captain who played through pain because he wanted to help us win.

If you need evidence of Cesc's impact and leadership, look up the results in the games he doesn't start. I think you'll find everything you need to there.

Rosicky defends like Paolo Maldini compared to Arshavin, so be thankful he was playing.

[Dunston14]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

So you think it was the right game plan for Cesc to play hurt? He said after 20 minuted he knew he could not be effective. I really don't think its is a great idea for a player to play when they know that they can not be effective and then he back heals a ball at the 20 and next thing you know its 1 0. He is a great player, but I question his leadership. What have they won with him as captain? More importantly I have seen better qualities form Wilshire on the pitch than Cesc.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

So you think it was the right game plan for Cesc to play hurt? He said after 20 minuted he knew he could not be effective. I really don't think its is a great idea for a player to play when they know that they can not be effective and then he back heals a ball at the 20 and next thing you know its 1 0. He is a great player, but I question his leadership. What have they won with him as captain? More importantly I have seen better qualities form Wilshire on the pitch than Cesc.

Saying he shouldn't have played hurt has nothing to do with being sick of him. If we had a team full of players with his drive and determination to win, we would've won several trophies by now. Once again, you say how many have we won with him, yet do you realize how many games we'd lose without him? A lot.

Also, comparing Wilshere's season to Fabregas' whole Arsenal career is ridiculous.

[Dunston14]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

I guess we will agree to disagree. I don't doubt his talent, but I am sick of him constantly getting hurt and maybe he is just unlucky, but at the same he is constantly getting injured.

Stating that we would have won several trophies if we had a team full of players with his drive and determination to win is also ridiculous

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

I guess we will agree to disagree. I don't doubt his talent, but I am sick of him constantly getting hurt and maybe he is just unlucky, but at the same he is constantly getting injured.

Stating that we would have won several trophies if we had a team full of players with his drive and determination to win is also ridiculous

No, I do not agree to disagree, because you're making absolutely no sense.

You're sick of him getting constantly injured? He's had a hamstring injury plaguing him this year, things like that happens. Last year, he had a fracture in his leg, which he played through to help us draw against Barcelona.

Your issues with him seem to have no ground and seem to simply be you needing a scapegoat, so you pick the person who is easiest to blame, the captain, yet who constantly is playing as hard as anyone on the field.

Also, you're doubting his drive and determination to win? Do you even watch Arsenal games or keep up with the news surrounding the team? Fabregas is one of the most passionate players we currently have on our squad.

If you have an actual, reasonable complaint to make about his play, go right ahead. However, your complaints seem to be formed from either misinformation or complete misunderstandings of what you see or do not see.

When he does leave Arsenal, which is inevitable, you'll quickly realize what he brought to the team. He is undoubtably the heartbeat of this squad and for you to not realize that is rather incredible.

[Qb]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

A little behind the times with my DVR watching, but that was certainly disappointing. I get what KG is saying in that RVP was ineffective so losing him wasn't a death blow, but going down to 10 in that manner had to be seriously deflating. Not to mention the tactical implications against the best pressing team in football.

Oh well, such is life. Hopefully there are no further complications with Fabregas & Van Persie, but I'm bracing for bad news, especially with Cesc.

[Whitesox]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

No, I do not agree to disagree, because you're making absolutely no sense.

You're sick of him getting constantly injured? He's had a hamstring injury plaguing him this year, things like that happens. Last year, he had a fracture in his leg, which he played through to help us draw against Barcelona.

Your issues with him seem to have no ground and seem to simply be you needing a scapegoat, so you pick the person who is easiest to blame, the captain, yet who constantly is playing as hard as anyone on the field.

Also, you're doubting his drive and determination to win? Do you even watch Arsenal games or keep up with the news surrounding the team? Fabregas is one of the most passionate players we currently have on our squad.

If you have an actual, reasonable complaint to make about his play, go right ahead. However, your complaints seem to be formed from either misinformation or complete misunderstandings of what you see or do not see.

When he does leave Arsenal, which is inevitable, you'll quickly realize what he brought to the team. He is undoubtably the heartbeat of this squad and for you to not realize that is rather incredible.

While I agree with you, allow me to play devil's advocate.

Could it be that this determination Cesc undoubtedly exhibits, in some cases, like last night, is detrimental to the club? While it is courageous to go out and play through an injury, he was virtually worthless last night. I'd say Arsenal would have been better of without him.

In my opinion, there is more to being a captain than courage. You need to be smart as well, and it was not smart to play last night.

[ZM Punk]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal "Gunners" Thread***

While I agree with you, allow me to play devil's advocate.

Could it be that this determination Cesc undoubtedly exhibits, in some cases, like last night, is detrimental to the club? While it is courageous to go out and play through an injury, he was virtually worthless last night. I'd say Arsenal would have been better of without him.

In my opinion, there is more to being a captain than courage. You need to be smart as well, and it was not smart to play last night.

I would rather have a 50% Cesc over a fit Diaby or Denilson. The guy wasn't missing this game.