***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

12 points from the last 10 games.

I've officially joined the camp that believes when it comes to tactics, Arsene has lost the plot and is becoming inept compared to his competition.

[NaturalSelected]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

12 points from the last 10 games.

I've officially joined the camp that believes when it comes to tactics, Arsene has lost the plot and is becoming inept compared to his competition.

It's all about tactics at this point.

Just watching these games, we are extremely weak defending the counter. What do we continue to do? Push up our fullbacks and then chase the game when the other team break.

We already should've learned this by February. Now we've spilled massive scorelines to Liverpool and Everton doing the same thing. Horrendous.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

It's all about tactics at this point.

Just watching these games, we are extremely weak defending the counter. What do we continue to do? Push up our fullbacks and then chase the game when the other team break.

We already should've learned this by February. Now we've spilled massive scorelines to Liverpool and Everton doing the same thing. Horrendous.

We should've learned it years ago. When we were winning, it was easy to ignore any tactical deficiencies that we had at all.

It really is insane that no matter what the opposition is, we play the same way every damn week. Unless we're protecting a one goal lead at the end, it's always the same.

I remember numerous times reading about how players and Arsene will talk about how we don't prepare for the opposition, but just prepare for "our game" and it won't matter what they do. Well, it's catching up to us once again.

If we don't win the FA Cup...I don't even want to think about how angry I'll be thinking about having to endure another Summer with Arsene making ****ty bids on players we really need.

[OneDrop]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

All of you hit the nail on the head with what you said. How come we can all spot the problems but Wenger can't? What bothers me is how Wenger doesn't interfere at all when things go wrong. He always substitutes at around 65-70 minute regardless of how the game is flowing. The only positive today was the difference between a team without Ramsey and Chambo and a team with them. They made us look better when they came in. Arteta is past it too. We need a new DM, two new strikers and an RB (in case sagna leaves). However, for some reason Wenger doesn't want to just splash money on someone and get it over with. He rather makes disrespectful bids which have 5% chance of being accepted. Unless he goes in panic mode, then he suddenly panics and splashes cash on someone when it is nearly too late (see Aston Villa loss -> Ozil).

[Perceptor]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

So we should try to sign Roberto Martinez

[OneDrop]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

So we should try to sign Roberto Martinez

I'd prefer Jurgen Klopp.

[Perceptor]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I'd be fine with either Martinez has shown though that he can play the transfer market well. McCarthy, Delofeu, Lukaku have been decent additions.

[Perceptor]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I will always be grateful to Wenger. He has built the club into a championship winner and banked a lot of money. The problem now as you've all said is that people have caught up to him and he hasn't changed.

His contract's up and I wonder if it's time the club moves on too. It pains me to say that but the fact is we're getting blown to pieces by the top clubs and barely beating the likes of Spurs and drawing Man U and losing to them. Liverpool, City, and Chelsea have thrashed them.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I will always be grateful to Wenger. He has built the club into a championship winner and banked a lot of money. The problem now as you've all said is that people have caught up to him and he hasn't changed.

His contract's up and I wonder if it's time the club moves on too. It pains me to say that but the fact is we're getting blown to pieces by the top clubs and barely beating the likes of Spurs and drawing Man U and losing to them. Liverpool, City, and Chelsea have thrashed them.

I still haven't reached the point where I want him to leave, but if he hoists the FA Cup (even if we land in 5th in the league), I'd be okay with him leaving, as I'm sure it'll be his decision.

I really, really hope that we can win that cup if he decides to not sign an extension.

[rsnomar05]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Well, we have been decimated by injuries, so I wouldn't lay the blame entirely on Wenger. I think if Jack, Ramsey, Ozil, and Walcott all stay healthy, we are not in this position. However, as you all have mentioned, other managers would have adapted their tactics to our situation. For example, with the injuries to our key attacking players, other managers would stop having defenders push up too far and focus more on defending.

If we can hang on to 4th and win the FA Cup, I think a lot of attitudes will change among the fans regarding Wenger. That is, until he fails address our needs in the transfer market and the fans go back to hating him.

[barryf1fan]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Don't know why I'm posting in here, as I agree with all the points that have been brought up. Even the stay/go on Wenger. He is, and always will be a great manager - but he just refuses to change his side (read: tactics), even when faced with a multitude of injuries that change the team dynamics.

I'm not upset with us losing to Everton (of course I want Arsenal to win every game!), they are in great form and look to have a sound game plan - no matter who they are playing. I swear, it looked like we were playing Chelsea all over again, except we had a bit more of the possession. I'm upset, as many have stated, with the way we lost. Wenger's refusal to adapt and change his tactics. After the first 5-7 minutes it was obvious that the central midfield of Arteta/Flamini wasn't going to cut it, but does he make a change?? Nope! As someone already stated, not til the 65th to 70th minute which is typical Wenger, and just plain arrogance at this point.

I hate to say this, but win the FA Cup or not, finish 4th or not I'm ready for a change... I know Arsene will be at the club even if he's not on the sideline come match day. I used to be on the side of "In Arsene We Trust", but after this last couple of months I'm not so sure I can say that. I honestly don't trust him to play the guys that "should" play, nor play the kind of game that the situation calls for.

Also, I think Sagna is good as gone... he has had no substantial success at Arsenal since joining in '07, bar Champions League qualification. Sad, but I don't/wouldn't blame him for wanting a change himself.

[KG]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I think you guys are seriously overreacting. No one in the league has the kind of depth to withstand those kind of the injuries. You add that with the fact that you JUST starting paying comparable wages and 3rd/4th place is all that you should expect. Yes, you had a good start to this year but the league is down this year and whoever wins it will have one of the lower points totals in a while.

Wenger didn't have many options in the midfield last game when you consider Ramsey wasn't at full fitness and Ox absolutely sucked in his last 2 appearances. When I saw that lineup with Flamini & Arteta in the pivot I immediately thought Wenger was playing for the draw which tbh, was smart considering Everton's form at Goodison.

The only move I felt Wenger was negligent in addressing was ST but he could get away with it as long as the guys behind him are healthy and scoring goals which they were early on until injuries set in.

[barryf1fan]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I think you guys are seriously overreacting. No one in the league has the kind of depth to withstand those kind of the injuries. You add that with the fact that you JUST starting paying comparable wages and 3rd/4th place is all that you should expect. Yes, you had a good start to this year but the league is down this year and whoever wins it will have one of the lower points totals in a while.

Wenger didn't have many options in the midfield last game when you consider Ramsey wasn't at full fitness and Ox absolutely sucked in his last 2 appearances. When I saw that lineup with Flamini & Arteta in the pivot I immediately thought Wenger was playing for the draw which tbh, was smart considering Everton's form at Goodison.

The only move I felt Wenger was negligent in addressing was ST but he could get away with it as long as the guys behind him are healthy and scoring goals which they were early on until injuries set in.

Overreacting? Probably. And while all your points are spot on, it doesn't change the fact that the last few years have been wash, rinse, repeat. Every year it's the same reason for a trophy-less season. "Man, we had some serious injury and personnel setbacks, but hey, we got our CL quali trophy".

I appreciate the surplus of funds, and the fact Arsenal (while still paying a lot in wages) has tried to self-contain the out of control spending on player wages, some quality players have left because 3rd or 4th is not hardware. (And I know you weren't saying it was). I for one would like to NOT qualify for CL, even though I understand the $ and prestige of it, because until this manager gets some reinforcements, and at most positions, we will continue to limp along.

I'm a 43 year old Gooner, I've been lucky enough to see Henry, Bergkamp, Ljunberg, and company a few times over the years, my dad's side of the family still live in Leicester (congrats to the Foxes, way to go!), I've been an Arsenal man for 30+ years and it is sometimes very difficult to watch, and like I stated above, I know we aren't gonna win every game - but the way that team floundered for the better part of 40 mins or so over the end of first half beginning of second half almost borders on ridiculous. I've coached competitive boys and girls soccer, from academy youth to U-17's, and no way would I have not made some sort of tweak or movement at halftime - at the latest.

And before I get flamed, I know I'm talking kids in my experience and this is premiere league Professional athletes, but the game is the game, no matter who is playing.

Anyway, long winded I know, point is, I guess I feel it's just time for a change.
I love this team and this club, I'm very religious, especially when it comes to Arsenal. And I feel that the players are the team, not the manager/coach, no matter his accomplishments or accolades. Trust me, I've coached enough to know that when my team was winning, everyone is happy; parents, players, my director of coaching, etc. But when my team is losing, in a scoring drought, etc, I know who's to blame... Me, not my players. And right now, no matter the circumstances/injuries/etc, this is Wenger's fault. <--- period, it's unfortunate, but I've been there with 10 year olds, coaching for free sometimes!

[KG]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners&quot; Thread***

Overreacting? Probably. And while all your points are spot on, it doesn't change the fact that the last few years have been wash, rinse, repeat. Every year it's the same reason for a trophy-less season. "Man, we had some serious injury and personnel setbacks, but hey, we got our CL quali trophy".

I appreciate the surplus of funds, and the fact Arsenal (while still paying a lot in wages) has tried to self-contain the out of control spending on player wages, some quality players have left because 3rd or 4th is not hardware. (And I know you weren't saying it was). I for one would like to NOT qualify for CL, even though I understand the $ and prestige of it, because until this manager gets some reinforcements, and at most positions, we will continue to limp along.

I'm a 43 year old Gooner, I've been lucky enough to see Henry, Bergkamp, Ljunberg, and company a few times over the years, my dad's side of the family still live in Leicester (congrats to the Foxes, way to go!), I've been an Arsenal man for 30+ years and it is sometimes very difficult to watch, and like I stated above, I know we aren't gonna win every game - but the way that team floundered for the better part of 40 mins or so over the end of first half beginning of second half almost borders on ridiculous. I've coached competitive boys and girls soccer, from academy youth to U-17's, and no way would I have not made some sort of tweak or movement at halftime - at the latest.

And before I get flamed, I know I'm talking kids in my experience and this is premiere league Professional athletes, but the game is the game, no matter who is playing.

Anyway, long winded I know, point is, I guess I feel it's just time for a change.
I love this team and this club, I'm very religious, especially when it comes to Arsenal. And I feel that the players are the team, not the manager/coach, no matter his accomplishments or accolades. Trust me, I've coached enough to know that when my team was winning, everyone is happy; parents, players, my director of coaching, etc. But when my team is losing, in a scoring drought, etc, I know who's to blame... Me, not my players. And right now, no matter the circumstances/injuries/etc, this is Wenger's fault. <--- period, it's unfortunate, but I've been there with 10 year olds, coaching for free sometimes!

You're not going to be able to get re-enforcements unless you have that extra $ coming in for making the CL. You guys were tight with that money, I can't imagine that you're be as liberal with your regular profits.

As a non-Arsenal supporter I feel like Arsene is Arsenal. When I think of Arsenal I think of free-flowing passing with skilled technical players. Arsene brought that to your club and made it the club's identity. I do think the Arsenal brand has slipped behind United, Chelsea, Liverpool, and City. I just looked it up and saw that Arsenal is playing their first game in the US since 1989. I know the world is much bigger than the State's but that's crazy.

I look at the difference between Arsenal's season & Liverpool's as a combination of luck & less stress due to them not playing European football as well as a deep run in the FA Cup. Liverpool started the year w/o Suarez but had Sturridge in great form. Suarez comes back hot and Sturridge goes down. Outside of that and a few injuries to Allen, Enrique, Sahko, and a few others they have been fairly healthy but who knows what would happen if they were fighting on all fronts. I guess we'll see next year but then again, they shell out more $ than you guys.

[barryf1fan]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners&quot; Thread***

You're not going to be able to get re-enforcements unless you have that extra $ coming in for making the CL. You guys were tight with that money, I can't imagine that you're be as liberal with your regular profits.

As a non-Arsenal supporter I feel like Arsene is Arsenal. When I think of Arsenal I think of free-flowing passing with skilled technical players. Arsene brought that to your club and made it the club's identity. I do think the Arsenal brand has slipped behind United, Chelsea, Liverpool, and City. I just looked it up and saw that Arsenal is playing their first game in the US since 1989. I know the world is much bigger than the State's but that's crazy.

I look at the difference between Arsenal's season & Liverpool's as a combination of luck & less stress due to them not playing European football as well as a deep run in the FA Cup. Liverpool started the year w/o Suarez but had Sturridge in great form. Suarez comes back hot and Sturridge goes down. Outside of that and a few injuries to Allen, Enrique, Sahko, and a few others they have been fairly healthy but who knows what would happen if they were fighting on all fronts. I guess we'll see next year but then again, they shell out more $ than you guys.

You're right, every team wants and need CL play for the $, and I agree that, on some level, Arsene Wenger is Arsenal. That was my whole point in my previous post (it was late and I hate typing on an iPad) though, Wenger is not Arsenal - the team is. When it comes down to it, it's the players and supporters that make the club - and not talking the boardroom, behind closed doors monetary side of it, that's a different animal.

Look for a moment at ManU, Sir Alex was synonymous with the ManU brand. When you saw his face you instantly thought of United. ManU has moved on, and this season has been a bit of a struggle (especially by United's expectations) but they will be fine - it's called transition and I know you know that. I think all that several have voiced in here is it may be time for Wenger to move into a different role at the club, if he chooses to stay.

I love AW and what he is done for the club in its entirety. The style of play he has developed, the kinds of players he brings in and develops. It's all been fantastic to watch and enjoy over the years. But I can't help argue that he wouldn't have made some moves earlier in a game "earlier" in his career. For example, our loss at ManU earlier this year I think Arsene would have went for that game and the points considering the season the red devils were/are having. 10 years ago he would have made the change to go for the points, not play for the draw which is what I took from that game. Maybe I'm way off on what I'm seeing in his lineups, but it seems other fans are seeing what I'm seeing. And someone posted earlier, if we as fans can see it, why can't he?

I wish he could stay forever, but it just doesn't work like that... if that was the case can I please have Patrick Vieira and Robert Pires back in the MF? Heck, while were at it, let's just throw Gilberto and Ljunberg back in there along with our invincible's back four, Lauren, Campbell, Toure, and Cole.

And on Liverpool, Enrique/Johnson injuries I get... not so much with Sahko or especially Joe Allen (not too impressed with him, he gives the ball away 2 to 1 that he creates in the MF). I think Jordan Henderson has been brilliant for Liverpool and instrumental in the attacking mid role. He's the most improved player for them this season.

I think what it comes down to is, I don't mind losing games to better teams, I think Bear Bryant or Lombardi said that, "the team that wins is usually the coach that brought the best athletes". I have said to a few of my EPL watching buds that I think City and Chelsea are the two best teams in the league, and I was wrong. It's those two teams and Liverpool! Even when Arsenal was sitting atop the league, I reiterated to them that we still had a long way to go. I just hate losing a game by being out coached, and that seems to be happening on a more regular basis than it ever used to. And that is what is frustrating.

Oh well, time will tell all.