Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

[Zac]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Just our yearly competition with comnebol to see who has the worst refs on the planet.

Hard to tell tbh, between the ref tonight staring at McKennie getting choked out from a foot away and the Copa VAR team actually watching Arthur’s challenge on Otamendi and deciding it’s fine.

Might have to call it a draw again.

Or the blatant hand ball just outside the box in I think the 88/89th minute that he was looking right at, and instantly waved it off . The dudes arm was above his head, and he was moving it up to meet the ball. No call.

[Suntan Superman]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Just our yearly competition with comnebol to see who has the worst refs on the planet.

Hard to tell tbh, between the ref tonight staring at McKennie getting choked out from a foot away and the Copa VAR team actually watching Arthur’s challenge on Otamendi and deciding it’s fine.

Might have to call it a draw again.

CONMEBOL will always take the cake for me, CONCACAF refs don't seem to bottle it as much in the less important games, CONMEBOL refs always have a stake in someone winning.

The Messi/Medel situation is basically all I needed to see.

[ImTellinTim]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

US wins the final 4-3.

This totally would have happened if we finished those first two chances, I swear.

We were having pretty good success bypassing the press by hitting it over them and finding runners off Jozy. So naturally, we insisted on playing out of the back the entire 2nd half so they could take the ball away over and over again. Fun times.

They made nice adjustments at the half and we...did not. Switching their wingers seemed to mystify us and that Pizarro guy became Messi. They also took Pulisic almost totally out of the game.

[fugazi]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

With all due resurrect for what Berhalter had done so far...

It's going to be rather disappointing of the next few years of competition with Mexico comes down to the fact that they hired Martino and the US hired "the director's brother"

[Suntan Superman]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

The underdevelopment of the pool under Bob Bradley/early Klinsmann is what's really killing us right now. There's so few players between 24-30 that should be in our pool. I can't tell you exactly what happens but when you look at the talent gap between the previous generation, the current crop of youngsters, and that 24-30 pool it's pretty unreal at how bad the talent is in that pool. These are the players that should be the leaders of the current crop of youngsters. Michael Bradley is our best leader, and sometimes it feels like he's our only leader because that there's just nothing in that group.

I don't think Berhalter deserves a lot of the blame, and in fact I came away more impressed this tournament than I thought I would be. I don't agree with every decision he made, and I'll probably wonder about the Lovitz substitution for the rest of my life, but I'm at least encouraged by the progress I think we made in this tournament. I like the group of 18-24 year olds we have coming up, and I think stability and a good system will do wonders for us as we grow and progress through the next years to the 2022 World Cup.

Anyway, the problems with the USMNT are a lot deeper than "the director's brother" if you believe that to be a problem, they're just a lot harder to talk about, which is why most just default to the easy argument.

[KG]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Bethalter deserves flak for what Tim said, consistenly trying to play it out of the back which got us into trouble instead of hoofing it up the pitch to Jozy who’s hold up play was prime Hesky’esque.

Also, why does Morris get called up AND start?

He offers nothing on the wing. He can’t dribble and he always comes inside clogging up space.

I thought McKinnie was a ghost too.

Pizzaro to me was the MOtM. I still can’t believe he played through that hyperextended elbow. Impressive


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[Brahvocado]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

CONMEBOL will always take the cake for me, CONCACAF refs don't seem to bottle it as much in the less important games, CONMEBOL refs always have a stake in someone winning.

The Messi/Medel situation is basically all I needed to see.

I mean, that ref was literally arms-length from McKennie who is getting choked by Guardado and he didn't even give Guardado a talking to.

That's just as bad as the Messi/Medel incident imo.

[Brahvocado]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

The underdevelopment of the pool under Bob Bradley/early Klinsmann is what's really killing us right now. There's so few players between 24-30 that should be in our pool. I can't tell you exactly what happens but when you look at the talent gap between the previous generation, the current crop of youngsters, and that 24-30 pool it's pretty unreal at how bad the talent is in that pool. These are the players that should be the leaders of the current crop of youngsters. Michael Bradley is our best leader, and sometimes it feels like he's our only leader because that there's just nothing in that group.

I don't think Berhalter deserves a lot of the blame, and in fact I came away more impressed this tournament than I thought I would be. I don't agree with every decision he made, and I'll probably wonder about the Lovitz substitution for the rest of my life, but I'm at least encouraged by the progress I think we made in this tournament. I like the group of 18-24 year olds we have coming up, and I think stability and a good system will do wonders for us as we grow and progress through the next years to the 2022 World Cup.

Anyway, the problems with the USMNT are a lot deeper than "the director's brother" if you believe that to be a problem, they're just a lot harder to talk about, which is why most just default to the easy argument.

Imo Berhalter is a good guy but he's exactly who the federation wants. He will agree to a lot, won't cause waves like Jurgen did etc.

The reality is we are still using tons of MLS players who don't deserve the minutes they are getting, with no real indication that is going to stop. I mean, he opted to use Zardes as a striker instead of bringing Sargent, that's wild. Our substitutions were Zardes, Roldan and a like-for-like left back sub; I just think it's pretty hard to defend his approach so far. He didn't even sub Boyd on at any point.

The only thing he has done differently than Sarachan is bring in more MLS players. We went from kids like Weah(I do realize he opted for the u-20 team), Sargent, Parks etc. getting good game time, to giving more minutes to Roldan, Morris, and freaking Zardes as a striker. He also seems to think our second best player and best center mid is better served playing as a right back.

I just don't see him as much of a departure from Arena. Yeah he's using some of the kids, but that's because Sarachan made sure that at least a few of them became undroppable.

I hope he proves me wrong, but so far I don't see any reason to hop on board the Berhalter train.

[Suntan Superman]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Imo Berhalter is a good guy but he's exactly who the federation wants. He will agree to a lot, won't cause waves like Jurgen did etc.

The reality is we are still using tons of MLS players who don't deserve the minutes they are getting, with no real indication that is going to stop. I mean, he opted to use Zardes as a striker instead of bringing Sargent, that's wild. Our substitutions were Zardes, Roldan and a like-for-like left back sub; I just think it's pretty hard to defend his approach so far. He didn't even sub Boyd on at any point.

The only thing he has done differently than Sarachan is bring in more MLS players. We went from kids like Weah(I do realize he opted for the u-20 team), Sargent, Parks etc. getting good game time, to giving more minutes to Roldan, Morris, and freaking Zardes as a striker. He also seems to think our second best player and best center mid is better served playing as a right back.

I just don't see him as much of a departure from Arena. Yeah he's using some of the kids, but that's because Sarachan made sure that at least a few of them became undroppable.

I hope he proves me wrong, but so far I don't see any reason to hop on board the Berhalter train.

Clear up a few things about my current positions on US Soccer.

I don't think Berhalter is our "savior" nor do I think he will do anything to save the US, I think after Klinsmann's tumultuous exit, Arena's disaster, and Sarachan's whatever-that-was stability is key, and Berhalter provides not only that but a decent enough coach that we can create a platform for success. I don't expect results from the Berhalter regime, just the stability that we've lacked for what feels like an eternity now.

Berhalter wasn't, isn't, and won't ever be my first choice for the US manager, but we could've done a lot worse. The criticisms for his substitutions in the final vs Mexico are 100% warranted though, I don't even think the biggest Berhalter fan could pretend like there's a justification for those.

The team selection/pool selection/etc seemed to me like it's been on Earnie Stewart's desk, not just Berhalter's. I think it's a combination of both of them creating the rosters(at least from US Soccer's website, that seems to be what the "GM" does, still kind of at a loss for that one) The Gold Cup selection didn't give me much faith in both of them, especially bringing Zardes/Morris and leaving Sargent at home, especially Morris.

As far as defending Berhalter, I like his tactics, I like the way the team sets up and transitions, and I think our defensive play was solid during the tournament, considering the names we were missing from our backline/defensive options (Brooks, Yedlin, Adams, to name three). I didn't think we'd even do this well during the gold cup results wise, and said throughout the tournament how little the tournament matter results-wise and how it mattered tactics/shape wise. Again, his subs in the final were garbage, and the 2nd half was a disaster of trying to play out of the back, but overall I'm fine with what happened.

Either way, I'm not on board a train for Berhalter, but I'm certainly not ready to burn him at the stake like many seem to be either. (Also in part because I have no faith in Stewart and company to hire someone actually better.

[ImTellinTim]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

I still can't believe Jozy missed that shot. By his standards, that's a tap-in, and he totally borked it. Would have been a totally different game if that goes in. SMH

[Brahvocado]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Clear up a few things about my current positions on US Soccer.

I don't think Berhalter is our "savior" nor do I think he will do anything to save the US, I think after Klinsmann's tumultuous exit, Arena's disaster, and Sarachan's whatever-that-was stability is key, and Berhalter provides not only that but a decent enough coach that we can create a platform for success. I don't expect results from the Berhalter regime, just the stability that we've lacked for what feels like an eternity now.

Berhalter wasn't, isn't, and won't ever be my first choice for the US manager, but we could've done a lot worse. The criticisms for his substitutions in the final vs Mexico are 100% warranted though, I don't even think the biggest Berhalter fan could pretend like there's a justification for those.

The team selection/pool selection/etc seemed to me like it's been on Earnie Stewart's desk, not just Berhalter's. I think it's a combination of both of them creating the rosters(at least from US Soccer's website, that seems to be what the "GM" does, still kind of at a loss for that one) The Gold Cup selection didn't give me much faith in both of them, especially bringing Zardes/Morris and leaving Sargent at home, especially Morris.

As far as defending Berhalter, I like his tactics, I like the way the team sets up and transitions, and I think our defensive play was solid during the tournament, considering the names we were missing from our backline/defensive options (Brooks, Yedlin, Adams, to name three). I didn't think we'd even do this well during the gold cup results wise, and said throughout the tournament how little the tournament matter results-wise and how it mattered tactics/shape wise. Again, his subs in the final were garbage, and the 2nd half was a disaster of trying to play out of the back, but overall I'm fine with what happened.

Either way, I'm not on board a train for Berhalter, but I'm certainly not ready to burn him at the stake like many seem to be either. (Also in part because I have no faith in Stewart and company to hire someone actually better.

Agree with pretty much all of this.

My only issue is his use of MLS players that shouldn't be there. Stability is great, but if it comes at the cost of some of this current crop of young players then I don't want it. There is zero reason for players like Roldan, Morris etc. to be in heavy rotation. Hell, I don't think we should even be using Bradley anymore.

It's pretty clear to me that USSF is trying to have our coaches shoehorn MLS players into the lineups as often as possible, it's the main reason for the fallout with JK. He got a lot wrong during his tenure, but changing the culture and trying to get our players to want more out of themselves, and to WANT to go to Europe, is one of the few good things he did. The problem was we didn't let him finish, and even chastised him for it. Bradley is a great example. JK was furious he came to the MLS, because plenty of mid-table European teams were looking at him. I mean, he wasn't even happy about Dempsey coming back, and Dempsey was at the end of his career.

This is one of the reasons I was secretly hoping for Wynalda tbh (even though I adore Kyle Martino). I absolutely do not like him, I think he is a blowhard d-bag with very little redeeming qualities as a person. However, he was 100% planning on blowing the entire organization to smithereens, and just starting fresh, which is probably what needed to happen. Despite being an MLS guy, Wynalda understood the importance of players aspiring to play in Europe, and the positive impact it can have on their development and game as a whole.

Anyway I'm just ranting at this point, but I do agree with you Berhalter is certainly not the worst pick. I don't really care about results either, but I'm just worried we will get into another cycle of picking MLS players over better options just because USSF wants to.

[Suntan Superman]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Agree with pretty much all of this.

My only issue is his use of MLS players that shouldn't be there. Stability is great, but if it comes at the cost of some of this current crop of young players then I don't want it. There is zero reason for players like Roldan, Morris etc. to be in heavy rotation. Hell, I don't think we should even be using Bradley anymore.

It's pretty clear to me that USSF is trying to have our coaches shoehorn MLS players into the lineups as often as possible, it's the main reason for the fallout with JK. He got a lot wrong during his tenure, but changing the culture and trying to get our players to want more out of themselves, and to WANT to go to Europe, is one of the few good things he did. The problem was we didn't let him finish, and even chastised him for it. Bradley is a great example. JK was furious he came to the MLS, because plenty of mid-table European teams were looking at him. I mean, he wasn't even happy about Dempsey coming back, and Dempsey was at the end of his career.

This is one of the reasons I was secretly hoping for Wynalda tbh (even though I adore Kyle Martino). I absolutely do not like him, I think he is a blowhard d-bag with very little redeeming qualities as a person. However, he was 100% planning on blowing the entire organization to smithereens, and just starting fresh, which is probably what needed to happen. Despite being an MLS guy, Wynalda understood the importance of players aspiring to play in Europe, and the positive impact it can have on their development and game as a whole.

Anyway I'm just ranting at this point, but I do agree with you Berhalter is certainly not the worst pick. I don't really care about results either, but I'm just worried we will get into another cycle of picking MLS players over better options just because USSF wants to.

Between recent call-ups and the current squad, I'd love for these players to never get called again:
Tyler Miller
Omar Gonzalez
Tim Ream
Daniel Lovitz
Wil Trapp
Cristian Roldan
Gyasi Zardes
Jordan Morris
Greg Garza
Jorge Villafana
Sebastian Lletget
Darlington Nagbe
Marky Delgado
Kenny Saief
Joe Gyau


I will always have a soft spot for Klinsmann because I loved his combativeness with the powers that be, but ultimately that was his downfall as well, because as soon as things went a little bit south they pulled the plug.

Also, obviously I agree on the players going to Europe stuff and have nothing of value to add to that statement/complaint/argument

[KG]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

The only player in that list I’d make an argument for is Ream, but only in a back three. He offers nothing going forward as a LB.


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[Cod]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

Bradley was showing his age during the final. Every time he was on camera, it looked like he was ball watching. I hope our WC qualifier schedule is against a bunch of beer league teams...if not, it'll be a while until we see the USMNT back on the big stage.

[Suntan Superman]

re: Official USMNT/USWNT Thread

The only player in that list I’d make an argument for is Ream, but only in a back three. He offers nothing going forward as a LB.

I'm okay with some of these folks getting a call if there are multiple injuries, I can understand going with a veteran instead of a young player in the case of an injury, but moving forward with John Brooks, Matt Miazga, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Erik Palmer-Brown, Auston Trusty, and the even younger guys in Chris Gloster and Chris Richards, I don't see much of a reason, even with an injury that Ream should be playing anymore. I'd probably take Mark McKenzie and Walker Zimmerman ahead of him as well at this point.