Reaction slider & CPU QB AI

[pats3912]

I know this is pretty much the holy grail we've all been looking for since the latest patch dropped, but does anybody have any clarification on what effect the human pass reaction slider has on the CPU QB. I feel there is so much that goes into how the CPU plays. How your team is built, how you play, what positions you value most when building a team, penalty sliders, etc. I find that if you have nasty defensive backs it makes it almost impossible for the CPU to throw on man on man coverage. The only way the cpu QB completes a pass is if they get a matchup with a WR on one of my linebackers. If I wanted to, I could just play Dime all game long, still stop the run (even with CPU run blk at 100 and Human tackle at 30) and never allow the cpu to complete a pass because the man coverage on my team is just too good. Their is no slider that seems to fix this. The CPU QB is taking about 2 - 3 sacks almost every time they get the ball.


Ive tried different combos of sliders. Ive had the human reaction slider at 100, 50, and 2. Ive had cpu pass block at 99 to give them more time. Ive had their WR catch at 55, 65, 75. CPU QB ACC at 50, 55, 65, 70, etc. Ive had my int slider at 50, 40, 30 , 20, 10, 8. My pass coverage the same.


I'm begging to believe that the problem isn't the sliders. Because the one slider we need doesn't exist. Until they give us a man coverage slider that creates more separation between the CPU WR and the human DB, this game will never be competitive. You could spend nothing on the rest of your team, go out and just sign/draft the top DB's in the league. Once your backfield is all high rated players, you will win every year because all you gotta do is sit in man coverage and let the CPU take sacks.


At this point I would rather a Robo QB marching up and down the field with 100% comp percentage, than to see them take 8-12 sacks a game. Any experiences that anybody has had with experimenting with their own sliders would be appreciated.


I know theirs multiple threads of different sliders, but it seems everyone has got a different idea on what the sliders do. I'm thinking its the game that forces you to build your sliders based on how you team is built. One guys team plays more realistic on a set of sliders because his safeties are average with maybe one stud CB. Those same sliders don't work for another guy because he has top rated safeties with better coverage and ****ty cornerbacks, if you get what im saying. So were all just sitting here wasting time trying to figure out what sliders are best suited for us when we are all having completely different experiences with the game.

[SunRise]

Look, I play on all madden with hum pass cov at 0 and pass react at 0 and still see the CPU QB hold on to the ball. Unfortunately can't go with this two sliders lower than this..

[roadman]

This thread might be of help.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...us-thread.html

[pats3912]

thanks. I did read through this thread but just found that nobody has figured anything out. A lot of threads in here tend to stray from the topic. I guess their isn't an answer that solves the problem. Just gotta work with what we got until another update.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Reaction Time, in regards to passes, is only calculated in zone coverage....The higher the slider rating, the quicker defenders in zones respond to the pass....

Reaction Time effects the time it takes defenders to react to the run; a lower reaction time means a faster reaction to the run, but slower reaction to the pass...

consider this as - higher pass reaction, the DB in zone is watching the QB's eyes and receiver; if the defender is watching the QB and/or WR in his zone, his eyes are not looking in the backfield for the RB.

Other things that effect rushing ability is tackle slider, fumble slider (higher makes RB rush harder), Run blocking(this is tricky, as just having a high block rating does not mean better blocking; I have found blocking at 15 actually keeps the right Guard from sliding too far to his left on many plays, thus getting him out of position....

Also, penalty sliders - Offsides, False Start and Holding and clipping effect rushing ability

offsides - higher increases aggressiveness at the snap of defense; lower is opposite

False start - higher is how aggressive offensive line is at jumping at snap - lower is opposite

Clipping - lower increases downfield blocking, which can open up the run game... 33 seems to be the sweet spot here.

(I noted what you can do to adjust the rushing game to your liking in case you find the need for a high Pass Reaction, and are getting too many rushing yards, or if you want more.)

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by SunRise

Look, I play on all madden with hum pass cov at 0 and pass react at 0 and still see the CPU QB hold on to the ball. Unfortunately can't go with this two sliders lower than this..

Try penalty slider "intentional grounding" at 80....if that don't work then try it at 40...depending on how ur other sliders are set, one or the other will create a more responsive, pocket aware QB...

[4thQtrStre5S]

(KBLover posted the following penalty slider definitions awhile back in another thread - I tend to find these definitions the most informative and complete list of what penalty sliders do.)



Offsides
Higher - Increases block shedding and acceleration/explosiveness at the snap (think of how some defenders try to 'guess' the snap - they are exploding off the line right at or just before the snap). This highlights "those who can't" i.e. the ones who are slower off the ball and are weaker at getting off blocks.

Lower - Causes the defenders to hold back more. They don't explode as much off the line (though high ACC defenders still DO come off the line). This highlights "those who can", the guys who can get off the ball, get off blocks, etc.

False Start

Basically like Offsides, but for Offensive Linemen/blockers on the play. Same thinking can be used - they are trying to 'cheat' and get a head start on their kick steps, blocking stance, pulling, etc

Holding

Higher: Increases duration of blocking engagements and success rate of defenders maintaining the block when a shed attempt is made (this is what sometimes triggers the holding animations and the penalty). This aids "those who can't", i.e. the guys who struggle in making and holding blocks - this helps them succeed at the cost of maybe triggering more penalties. This also causes those who ARE good to cause more penalties because some successes will be considered "illegal".

Lower: Decreases duration of blocking engagements and makes it more likely that defenders will shed blocks. This also decreases the number of holding animations (because the blocker will outright fail more often) and lowers penalty call possibilities. This highlights "both", the guys who can block and pancake and do all that good stuff without creating more mistakes. It also exposes the scrubs because they'll get no "help" and just suck.

This creates a frustrating trade off. If you want calls and those who suck to make penalties, you also have to give the good guys more likelihood to have "bad calls" against them. While that does happen - usually it's the guys who get beat, have bad awareness/technique, and have to "compensate" that tend to draw more flags.

Face Mask

Higher: May increase the "violence" of hits and the success/incidence of hit stick/Big Hitter tackles. Also increases the occurrence of the facemask animations and penalty call likelihood resulting. This may make most guys into hard hitters, regardless of POW.

Lower: May decrease the number big hits and decreases the number of facemask animations and calls. This may highlight POW more, even if they are "Big Hitter: Yes" players.

Defensive Pass Interference

Higher: Decreases the aggressiveness of the pass coverage. Think of it as the defender is worried about triggering a DPI call, so he plays back more and more conservatively. This is probably why we don't see more DPI with it up high.

Lower: Increases the aggressiveness of the pass coverage. The defender isn't worried about the penalty call and is going to make the most aggressive play he can. While this sounds like it always favors the defense, it can burn the defense if the defender is aggressive and/or has low AWR/PRC/MCV/ZCV.

Interesting thing here is that I think lower DPI is overall more help. Defenders tend not to have a lot of ball awareness - until an interception is "rolled up" (you can almost see it, the defender will take coverage/route to the ball with a different animation, etc). This doesn't create more of that animation (INT slider), but it lets more "free form" aggression to play out i.e. "I see the ball and I'm gonna swat it/pick it/attack that pass." I think lower plays out both the "Plays the Ball" trait and the AWR/PRC/MCV/ZCV of the defender better.

Offensive Pass Interference

Higher: The receivers run their routes more passively. Similar logic as above for DPI - the player is concerned about triggering OPI so there's "physicality" in the route running. This might also impact press coverage as well. If the WR are less physical in their routes and ball reactions, it would follow that press should last longer. Higher tends to emphasize "those who can" i.e. the guys who can run sharp routes, beat press coverage, make the special catch, hold on in traffic.

Lower: The receivers run their routes with aggression and physically. They worry less about OPI calls and will do what it takes to get the ball. They are more willing to play like Michael Irvin or other physical WRs. It follows that they'll also tend to go aggressively after passes and may beat press coverage more.

Depending on what you want - you can go either way here. If you want to make route running and ball skills more valuable, a higher setting works well (and I consider 50 "high" here - above that and it seems like you start killing everyone's ability a bit much), if you want to make the scrubs instead of the higher end players stand out (i.e. you feel that just about every NFL player can run a decent or better route), a lower setting does that job well, imo.

Punt Catch Interference

Higher: All out, go get 'em, get that ball carrier, see that ball, close on it in the air, get there and make the tackle, smack that receiver and tackle that completion for no YAC. That's what higher tends to do. Defenders will see the ball, close on it's location and rally to tackle whoever ends up with it.

Lower: Defenders tend to play a little more cautiously. They want to "read" (such that it is in this game) more and wait until the play is a little closer to them to respond. Seem to worry more about being caught out of position than to anticipate what might happen next.

Creates another interesting trade-off. Deception may well work better on higher, though it might also create more of what some consider "psychic" play by the pursuit when the play is not deceptive*/defender is not fooled, etc. Lower, you might get guys not responding to what's in front of them sometimes, but they may be less pulled out of position because they aren't trying to shag anything that moves and do less "freelancing". So which is "right" - both. Depends on the kind of defense you want to emulate, disciplined, conservative, but sometimes too much so, or aggressive, attacking...but sometimes too much so. Each has strengths and weaknesses. I've used 0 and 100 - both extremes and anything in between can work.

For example, I have this on 100 and saw Rolando McClain abandon his zone because he thought Freeman was about to scramble into open space. Freeman saw that and hit his TE who beat the man coverage...right where McClain was...and I've done similar to the CPU.

*by deceptive, I don't mean just read options and PA. I mean reverses, counters, draws, incorrect committing (you do pass commit, CPU does shotgun draw), or a player making a mistake and recovering (he fooled himself, was fooled initially on a double move route, etc)

Clipping

Higher: Back to worrying about penalties - players are less inclined to make certain down field/open field blocks (perhaps it's the angle of the would be contact - and if it would cause clipping, the player doesn't do the block). Similar to holding, this may cause more mistakes from those who do often block down field (high IBL players?) or cause more otherwise legit blocks to animate and be called as clipping.

Lower: Players are more apt to just hit a defender. See defender, hit defender. See defender, block defender. Defender trying to get down field to cover kick/punt, chase defender hoping for a chance to hit defender. Good down field blockers won't get called as much on lower settings, but it might make poorer down field blockers more successful because they'll block more, and less likely to get called if they DO make a bad block.


Intentional Grounding

This might be my favorite one.

Higher: QB gets worried about pressure more. "Clock in his head" ticks faster, he thinks "I need to get rid of this ball. I NEED to get rid of this ball. ****! WHERE CAN I THROW THIS ******** BALL?!?!?!?!?!11!!!" And more often will tend to throw it away. "Shoot, I ain't tryin' to die for a football game."

Lower: QB doesn't want to abandon a play. Always wants to make something happen. It's the Ben Rothlisberger setting. QB thinks "I'm gonna find someone open. Just wait, someone will open up. They getting close, but I got time, someone will open up." Then when the pressure gets there:

QB will either force the ball, take the nearest open receiver, start to scramble, throw it away, manuever around until feeling safe, then repeat the above "Lower:" process - Josh Freeman did this to me in that game I just played - he moved around, didn't run, found someone open and hit him. His "Force Passes" is Ideal...

You can do so much with this slider because it also seems to determine when the above scenarios happen. Lower makes fewer "no one open, throw it away" situations - so coverage droops a bit. Higher can create more of those "throw it away" - Coverage might improve some. Lower makes the QB more patient. If everyone is covered 3 seconds into the play, he's more likely to keep looking. Higher makes the QB give up more - everyone covered in 1.5 seconds - screw it, throw it away.

This slider can help make the QB traits show up more. The value will depend on your other settings and what not, but I think lower will make the Force Passes trait really show out (especially if you have good coverage). Higher might make Sense Pressure show up (you might see the patient QBs do better than the Paranoid). What I'm still trying to figure out is which shows more degrading in play due to sacks/hits, and more impact on the User QB.


Roughing the Passer

Higher: In addition to creating more roughing the passer calls (almost literally, high enough and the QBs will take a dive to try to draw a flag even when grazed). Defenders will also understand it's two-hand touch on the QB and pull up more and be less aggressive getting to the QB.

Lower: All bets are off. QB is a football player and we'll treat him like one. Refs look the other way on MOST late hits on the QB (you can still get some roughing QB penalties). Best of all, the pass rush will get more determined and fierce, and when in trouble, QBs better think fast.

Lower seemed to get my pass rushing going. Guys like Von Miller really get after me when they are blitzing and if a DL gets free, they don't hesitate to go after the QB. I make sure I have to either roll out or check it down even before it might actually open up (anticipate the pressure, which creates chances for me to be deceived). For the CPU, it can help stop the throw-it-deep always type thing, forcing the CPU to check down or to use intermediate throws more.

The downside is that I can't draw as many flags as a scrambling QB throwing just before I'm hit. That was one of Terrelle Pryor's best attributes, er...I mean...

Roughing the Kicker

Higher: For whatever reason that only deities and whoever programmed this game knows, this seems to impact overall pursuit in all phases and activities in the game, decreasing it because...I don't know. It impacts more than just kicking situations. Perhaps it's a proxy for all late hit type penalties, like if you hit stick someone near the boundary. I actually got called for that recently.

Lower: Players don't care. They'll just go and hit and try to make tackles and such. Though, I haven't seen the CPU get called for a late hit like I did, but I know they've tried it. Just in the game I just finished, the CPU corner drove Denarius Moore into the ground about 5 yards out of bounds. Maybe this is why I saw a defender plant Robert Griffin III into ground...on a kneel down...WAY after the play...with no flag.

[pats3912]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

Reaction Time, in regards to passes, is only calculated in zone coverage....The higher the slider rating, the quicker defenders in zones respond to the pass.... Reaction Time effects the time it takes defenders to react to the run; a lower reaction time means a faster reaction to the run, but slower reaction to the pass... consider this as - higher pass reaction, the DB in zone is watching the QB's eyes and receiver; if the defender is watching the QB and/or WR in his zone, his eyes are not looking in the backfield for the ball. Other things that effect rushing ability is tackle slider, fumble slider (higher makes RB rush harder), Run blocking(this is tricky, as just having a high block rating does not mean better blocking; I have found blocking at 15 actually keeps the right Guard from sliding too far to his left on many plays, thus getting him out of position.... Also, penalty sliders - Offsides, False Start and Holding and clipping effect rushing ability offsides - higher increases aggressiveness at the snap of defense; lower is opposite False start - higher is how aggressive offensive line is at jumping at snap - lower is opposite Clipping - lower increases downfield blocking, which can open up the run game... 33 seems to be the sweet spot here.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Maybe theres still some combo's of sliders I havnt yet tried or tested. I do find if I can get the CPU to run the ball effectively, almost to the point where its unfair, it forces me to start calling run defensive plays which opens up the passing game for the CPU if they catch me in a run defense. I'll work with this and let you guys know if I find anything that helps.