Tomba's Game Speed and Slider Theory

[catfish9-5]

Played the first half only of browns vs rams. I was hoping to see a differnce with two "lesser" teams and it did. Played totally different than 49ers abd texans game I played earlier. To me that's huge. Still the same flow but a few more mistakes by qb's and both teams seem to struggle at times. Who knows what 2nd half would have brought.....

[catfish9-5]

Quote: Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz

Okay, I am going to wait and see what other posters reveal. I appreciate what I'm hearing so far and will see what else can complement these speed sets. I'm tempted to go with fast 25 speeds and use an all 25 slider base as a springboard. I am not a fan of ease; I enjoy the struggle towards success and finding your ease in the process. I don't want it to come too easy. Someone mentioned he likes the feel and I do like the feel of the speed tuning. I'm interested now in how penalties and sliders will complement the speed tuning with the same click the speeds give us. I'm going to holdout on making any further changes until we have more contributions to your thread. You've certainly contributed a gem here, thanks man.

I agree 100%., especially with the struggle towards success. I'm hoping the pass coverage can be "tightened" up a bit or qb accuracy "loosened" up a bit. I'm using the normal/50 setting. Do you think a different speed set could help?

[mogrod]

Yea, I played a little over a quarter in my online CCM (me Texans v Titans), Normal Speed, 50 TH. and I didn't see any errant passes and all the WRs caught everything, even in heavy traffic or getting hit.

I had the level on All-Pro is that makes a difference

[hanzsomehanz]

Once you get into the all 100's you're def considered a Rookie. The game judges difficulty by where your sliders are set.

All-Pro is a good base for Normal Speeds and a thresh range of 40-60
Pro is a good base for Slow Speeds and a thresh range of 65 - 85
Rookie is a good base for Very Slow Speeds and a thresh of 90 - 100
All-Madden is a good base for Fast Speeds and a thresh range of 15 - 35
All-Madden is a good base for Very Fast Speeds and a thresh of 0 - 10

I'm using the similar concept that Tomba proposed and working with approx. a 25% scheme. It seems EA likes to use certain numbers to break things up which makes computing and optimizing sense. It's up to us now to figure out the concepts of their numbers.

I look at it this way, when you use All-Pro you have an all-50 base both sides. That means, naturally, this is a good click with other normal, balanced settings - normal game speed, 50 thresh. All-Pro is the middle divider so is the Normal Game speed and 50 thresh. These are chief settings for Online Play.

When you use All-Madden difficulty in play now, the difficulty for PC remains at 50, as it always does for any difficulty; Your difficulty changes to 25 as a base for all skill set sliders.

Look at this hierarchy and see the pattern:

All-Madden = 25 base
All-Pro = 50 base
Pro = 75 base
Rookie = 100 base

Now watch the speed tuning

Very Fast + 0 = ?
Fast + 25 = ?
Normal + 50 = ?
Slow + 75 = ?
Very slow + 100 = ?

What difficulty do you see these speed engines being compatible with? Try for yourself and see how they feel on the different difficulties.

The game has been giving us some huge hints this here for how to match things up. I'm starting to see how to modify the penalty sliders now based on getting the difficulty and speed alignments right, right out the gates, as a base.

*The base is your springboard and can be used as a modifier to stay within a range of difficulty or speed. All difficulties and speeds have ranges - there is no set value - that function as bases and ceilings.

edited remarks:

After some further review, it seems the speed threshold is the major complement and contributor to difficulty offsetting game speed to be used as a modified application for any difficulty. Further investigation will still be needed because gamers would still prefer to use one game speed versus another but still use the same difficulty - nothing should be too static.

*You may have more flexibility in CCM - Tomba's speed tuning engine does work. I've tested matching his speed tuning with the numbers that match for base user skill sets in Play Now mode and I can see an immediate challenge on the rookie and pro levels.

By effecting speed, you affect time, because speed is calculated by time and distance covered. The higher thresholds make the game tighter therefore; when you have any reaction time over 50 on either pass or run you are making it more challenging for yourself, which is what the game does when it moves all your sliders up for Rookie and Pro - it has a converse effect. If anything, these subtle hints are clues into how the slider setup works and how everything complements each other, eventually, will help us to break free from the mold.

[Sykorafan17]

just am trying your theoried slider set for the first time today in play now mode, also incorporating the penalty adjustments from the other thread... playing the giants (me) -eagles (cpu) game scheduled for next sunday


Passing
Eli was 18/30 (60%) 243yds 2 TDS 1 Ints
Rushing
Bradshaw 15 Att 157 yds 10.4 avg 1 TD (73 yd Td run on second series )
Brown 10 Att 49yds 4.9 avg
Wilson 5 Att 54 yds 10.8 avg 1 TD
Hynoski 1 Att 1yd 1 TD
(think the hb sub is alittle high) it was 87 out 90 in before i tried these

Vick 31/38 (81%) 415 yds 4 TD 2 Ints (1 user after ball was thrown) 7 Sacks, was 5 att for 33 yds rushing 6.6 avg
(this was due to 23 consective completions from end of 3rd to end game when they went into catchup mode)
(computer still had trouble running as evidenced by)
McCoy 11 Atts 33 Yds 0 TD 3.0 Avg, 4 rec 16 yds
B. Brown 6 Att 15Yds 0 TD 2.5 Avg

Desean Jackson with 5 rec 194 yds 2 TDs
Avant with 8 rec 70 yds 0 Tds
and rest spread through other recievers

Game ended 44-29 Giants
7 penalties called combined all in second half

I like the way it feels but i think there probably is some more adjustments to be made as usual

Any thoughts/feedback is appreciated

[Tomba]

Quote: Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz

Look at this hierarchy and see the pattern: All-Madden = 25 base All-Pro = 50 base Pro = 75 base Rookie = 100 base Now watch the speed tuning Very Fast + 0 = ? Fast + 25 = ? Normal + 50 = ? Slow + 75 = ? Very slow + 100 = ? What difficulty do you see these speed engines being compatible with? Try for yourself and see how they feel on the different difficulties. The game has been giving us some huge hints this here for how to match things up. I'm starting to see how to modify the penalty sliders now based on getting the difficulty and speed alignments right, right out the gates, as a base. *The base is your springboard and can be used as a modifier to stay within a range of difficulty or speed. All difficulties and speeds have ranges - there is no set value - that function as bases and ceilings. edited remarks: After some further review, it seems the speed threshold is the major complement and contributor to difficulty offsetting game speed to be used as a modified application for any difficulty. Further investigation will still be needed because gamers would still prefer to use one game speed versus another but still use the same difficulty - nothing should be too static. *You may have more flexibility in CCM - Tomba's speed tuning engine does work. I've tested matching his speed tuning with the numbers that match for base user skill sets in Play Now mode and I can see an immediate challenge on the rookie and pro levels. By effecting speed, you affect time, because speed is calculated by time and distance covered. The higher thresholds make the game tighter therefore; when you have any reaction time over 50 on either pass or run you are making it more challenging for yourself, which is what the game does when it moves all your sliders up for Rookie and Pro - it has a converse effect. If anything, these subtle hints are clues into how the slider setup works and how everything complements each other, eventually, will help us to break free from the mold.

Good point Im testing this out more soon...However i am big believer that 100 means smarter AI and helping AI for user control

[akita7334]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tomba

Could it have been this simple? Did it have to be so complicated? From starting points to end results I've run the gamut of different combinations only to have the most blatant thing stand out.... DEFAULT. Well ALMOST LOL. What i mean by Default is making sure you have your settings only so that things match the default set. I'll start with Game speed and Player threshold. Basically the way we have to treat this is very basic. You know how madden 13 have the Game Speed at Normal and Player Threshold at 50? Well..There seems to be a reason for this. At default this effects NOTHING of the player ratings. WHEN and if you introduce any variant into the Player threshold up OR down you mess with the ratings and things on the field get out of wack REAL FAST. That said, My theory is this... Since there are 5 game speeds and a possibility to EVEN out Player threshold to 5 settings of 0,25,50,75 and 100 what we do is keep it in conjunction WITH the Game Speed. EX: Remember now AT Default its game speed Normal and Player threshold 50. What we do to make this even out ALL THE TIME is this: Game Speed Very Slow Player Threshold 100 Game Speed Slow Player Threshold 75 Game Speed Normal Player Threshold 50 Game Speed Fast Player Threshold 25 Game Speed Very Fast Player Threshold 0 Now this ALL depends on your preference of game speed but here the difference is that you MATCH IT with these specific thresholds. And the question? "Well what does this do Tomba?" Well... This reinforces better physics and NO MORE bad player collision detection. In short Game Speed when matched properly with Player threshold works like a proper Overall game Speed Change. meaning when matched game speed is just that OVERALL Game Speed and Animation Speed. Okay so that covers Game Speed and Player Threshold. I have no doubts you'll see somewhat of a huge change but none more eye opening then when combined with the slider set below. Now, this might look ODD or maybe easy to some, but none the less it provides the BEST possible gameplay out madden 2013 that I've had the privilege to try and muster. The Slider Set below is not a dumbing down of game it's the bringing in of intelligence and making the game smarter and react faster with the right decisions. Doing the sliders at almost all 100 provides for the computer AI along with you aiding AI on human control to react properly. This makes a world of difference and feel like its human vs human and just like it would be in REAL -LIFE. Quarter Length: 8 to 15 minutes Injuries: 10 Fatigue: 90 Player Skill Passing: QB Accuracy: 100 Pass blocking: 100 WR Catching: 100 Rushing: Broken Tackles: 100 Run Blocking: 100 Fumbles: 50 Pass Defense: Reaction Time: 100 Interceptions: 50 Pass Rushing: 100 Rush Defense: Reaction Time: 100 Block Shedding: 100 Tackling: 100 CPU SKILL Passing: QB Accuracy: 100 Pass blocking: 1000 WR Catching: 100 Rushing: Broken Tackles: 100 Run Blocking: 100 Fumbles: 50 Pass Defense: Reaction Time: 100 Interceptions: 50 Pass Rushing: 100 Rush Defense: Reaction Time: 100 Block Shedding: 100 Tackling: 100 Trust me as convoluted this might sound the results I've had have been phenomenal. No longer do I have to go into player ratings. NOW? They play LIKE THEIR RATINGS! Give this a try. What's the worst that could happen? It could work for you as well Tomba ...as always we REAL -LIFE it

Your theory on Game speed and Threshold mirror mine almost exactly. This is what else I have found.

Edited 9-22, I have completed my testing in all phases of the game, Penalty, Auto-Sub, Fatigue and took a another look at the Game Play Sliders as well. I have made one change to the game play sliders. I found a link between Fumbles and R D Reaction, see below for explanation and new settings for the above mentioned.

The methods I use are a simple way for anybody to be able to have a good time playing a football game they paid $60 for. Some have said the balanced idea saved there investment, and when I hear that that's all I need to know this works. Maybe not for a rocket scientist, but people who love football and are looking for a game that plays like the real game.

The real game isn't perfect and you can't explain real football anymore than you can explain Madden. Anybody see the Manning Brothers lately, how many of you would cry the game sucks and you wasted your money on it if you were the one throwing the Int? Real football is unpredictable and so is Madden.

I have fun playing this game with the balance method, most fun I have ever had with this game. And if you are one of the people who do to tell me about it. If your a rocket scientist or looking to figure out why balance? Go look at another thread and don't come back to this one.

Just have fun and play!

I am telling everyone try out my theory. Play several games in online ccm in a test career if you have to. You have to play several games to see that every game is different and you have to be on point with whatever team you play.

This game was designed with the sliders being balanced at 50 default All-Pro, level I use. All other levels are unbalanced and do not equal 100.

As you adjust sliders you have to always remain at a 100 balance, otherwise this affects the CPU AI and throws off the balance of the game itself.

I have read through many of the posts regarding slider settings. First of all I appreciate all the hard work.

I wanted to offer some of my theories and get feedback on what I have found with the sliders.

The sliders have to remain balanced. This is something that EA should have explained. Over adjusting and losing balance will cause many of the problems I have read about.

The following sliders have to remain at a balance of a 100, as follows:
QB Accuracy/Pass Reaction=100 (USER 40/CPU 60/CPU 70 USER 30)100/100
Pass Block/Pass Rush=100 (USER 45 CPU 55/ CPU 70 USER 30)100/100
WR Catch/Interceptions=100 (USER 70 CPU 30/CPU 70 USER 30)100/100
Broken Tackles/Tackling=100 (USER 55 CPU 45/CPU 55 USER 45)100/100
Run Block/Block Sheding=100 (USER 45 CPU 55/CPU 60 USER 40)100/100

Fumbles and Run Reaction (updated 9-22) See explanation below:

Fumbles/Run Reaction=100 (USER 60 CPU 40/CPU 60 USER 40) 100/100
This adjustment increases the chance of a fumble, especially by players with a lower carry rating. It also opens up the outside run for both USER and CPU.

The following is my final set I will be using during the Season. Any adjustments are only made during the Pre-Season. I stick with the same set and will not make adjustments until the next Pre-Season.

PLAYER SKILL/CPU SKILL
QB Accuracy-40/70
Pass Blocking-45/70
WR Catching-70/70
Broken Tackles-55/55
Run Blocking-45/60
Fumbles-60/60 (updated 9-22)
P D React Time-30/60
Interceptions-30/30
Pass Rushing-30/55
R D React Time-40/40 (updated 9-22)
Block Sheding-40/55
Tackling-45/45

SPECIAL TEAMS
FG Power-53
FG Accuracy-48
Punt Power-52
Punt Accuracy-52
Kickoff Power-53

GAME OPTIONS
Injuries-50 (updated 9-16) see explanation below:

The injury slider only affects the user. The higher setting was producing to many injuries for the USER while the CPU maintained a consistent level of injuries throught the league. This created an unfair advantage for the CPU when USER has 6 injured players at one time the CPU had no more than three at one time.

Fatigue-40 (updated 9-22)

This is the highest setting you should use for Fatigue. Any higher and you will see O-Lind subbing out no matter what your Auto Subs sliders are set at. This is because there is a big difference in Stamina rating between players.

Auto-Sub (Added 9-22)
Keep all Auto-Sub sliders at default except QB 11/9. This is because there is a direct link to the CPU AI. This setting increases the amount the QB throws the ball. You will notice a better mix of run to pass, passing on first down, reduces greatly the predictability of the CPU.

Offense-In/Out
QB-11/9
HB-51/49
WR-51/49
FB/TE -51/49
OL-51/49

Defense-In/Out
DT-51/49
DE-51/49
LB-51 /49
CB-51/49
S-51/49





Game Speed-Fast

I have set my game speed to Fast. The CPU AI makes much quicker decisions and uses much better strategy against you. I have some great games and have actually been blown out by the CPU. You have to bring your A game every time and use strategy or the CPU AI will figure you out. On the other hand, if you are on point, you can shut the CPU down as well.

Min Player Speed Threshold-70 (updated 9-16) See explanation below:

I found that threshold relates to game speed. The threshold should be set at 100 for Very fast, 75 for Fast, 50 for Normal, 25 for Slow & 0 for Very Slow. All settings for Threshold can be + or- 5 but no more.

The reason is threshold balances out the difference between the 5 different game speeds. As you increase or decrease game speed the players get faster or slower equally.

For example: A player with a 99 speed rating will always be the fastest no matter what your settings are at. So any player with less than a 99 speed rating will of course be slower. As you adjust the game speed the speed difference between player does not adjust. So when you increase game speed the speed difference between players increases, as you decrease game speed the speed difference between players does too. The threshold setting is used to maintain a realistic difference between players speed.

PENALTY (updated 9-22). See explanation below:
This setting will give you between 3 and 6 penalties a game per team, this is acceptable and this is about the NFL average per game. I found no evidence the sliders have any real impact on the game play sliders, as a matter of fact I don't think many of the sliders do anything at all, the only ones that work are False Start, Holding, Face Mask, Roughing Passer.

Offside-100
False Start-75
Holding-55
Face Mask-55
Defensive Pass Interference-100
Offensive Pass Interference-100
Punt Catch Interference-100
Clipping-100
Intentional Grounding-100
Roughing Passer-55
Roughing Kicker-100

I consider myself to be a good player and these sliders can be tweeked as you see fit as long as the sliders I mention equal 100. Again, adjustments are only made during the Pre-Season. You are stuck with the set you choose for the whole Season so choose wisely.

Final note, this set makes players ratings matter. You will see a difference, both with your players and CPU teams players, and great players can and will take over a game wether it's your player or the CPU teams player.

Try it out. Let me know what you think. My goal as always is to have a realistic challenging game from the CPU.

[MoleDude]

@Akita....you said your gamespeed & tresholds mirror Tomba's, but they're exactly opposite....