Madden Fans' Take On ESPN

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Again, I never said that. I said that all aspects of it is important to creating a realistic simulation. Having one or the other does not make it a complete simulation of the NFL. Going back to your arguement let me put this out there - what would ESPN fans do if there was only exhibition game mode in ESPN next year and no season or franchise at all? They wouldn't be too happy I don't believe. Because even though ESPNs franchise may not be the best it is required to be a legitimate football game which means for the vast majority of people a simulation extends beyond just mere on the field gameplay and also includes franchise and how realistically it plays. To have a realistic simulation of the NFL you *must* have both the gameplay and all of the other areas such as franchise done up to par to call it a simulation. The same reason I do not consider ESPN to be a true simulation because it's franchise is sub-par is the same reason that I do not consider text only sims to be real and complete simulations, they do not encompass both aspects of gameplay and off the field management which a true simulation should do. That's why I feel that although Madden is far from perfect in both gameplay and off the field management it offers the best combination of the two creating the best simulation overall. As I said before, if all you care about is on the field gameplay and you prefer ESPN then by all means you can say that is the best simulation but for most people when they play an NFL game they expect there to be a high level of quality in BOTH on the field gameplay and franchise in order to be called a realistic simulation of the sport.

I have never seen anyone (but you) say that if the franchise isn't as good as you would like it, that the game is any less of a simulation.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

I have never seen anyone (but you) say that if the franchise isn't as good as you would like it, that the game is any less of a simulation.

LOL, well maybe it's my age, i'm 34 and most everyone I know considers franchise in addition to on-field gameplay to make or break a game being considered a simulation or not. I guess we're spoiled by having Franchise Football by Sierra as the ultimate sim back in the day, a game which had both excellent on the field gameplay and franchise mode.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

LOL, well maybe it's my age, i'm 34 and most everyone I know considers franchise in addition to on-field gameplay to make or break a game being considered a simulation or not. I guess we're spoiled by having Franchise Football by Sierra as the ultimate sim back in the day, a game which had both excellent on the field gameplay and franchise mode.

I agree with your takes 100%. The emeregence of online play has further splintered an already divided market. There now exist two sims camps where before it was just the sim/arcade camps.

The "gameplay isn't everything, its the only thing" crowd is all about the vicarious physical experiences of the NFL, while downplaying the cerebral aspects of the game. Given a good enough on the field product, a game could have no Franchise mode and they would still anoint it the G.O.A.T.

The "Give me a smart CPU draft A.I., or give me death" group wants to be player, coach, GM, Owner, and even trainer, and strength coach. Although they love the on the field action too "Monday thru Saturday" is also important in their football universe.

[Erv]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

Espn has way more plays than madden and all of them are accurate to the team that you are using. And like the guys from vc said, there's no real reason to make plays since they have so many of them in the game.

Offensively you might have an argument but online you can't do anything with the playbooks. Defensively there is no contest ESPN's playbook wouldn't help a middle school team.

[koolbubbaice]

Both are great.. Maddnes graphics are getting slammed for no reason.. The muscle definition on the players on madden look much better then ESPN footballs.. I wish VC would use the same arm detail in football like they do in their Basketball series.. Would really increase the realism.. If your on a budget & want a robust onoline function get ESPN.. If Dynasty is more to your liking get Madden.. I'd get both since you can get then both for 54.13

[dieselboy]

The thing about it, is I don't need someone elses opinion to tell me which game is better. I own both, and play both as much as they deserve.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by koolbubbaice

Both are great.. Maddnes graphics are getting slammed for no reason.. The muscle definition on the players on madden look much better then ESPN footballs.. I wish VC would use the same arm detail in football like they do in their Basketball series.. Would really increase the realism.. If your on a budget & want a robust onoline function get ESPN.. If Dynasty is more to your liking get Madden.. I'd get both since you can get then both for 54.13

Are you serious? Madden's so called "muscle definiton" is a bunch of veins. They look like track lines form someone using heroin. The graphics look like cartoons and are really ugly.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

Are you serious? Madden's so called "muscle definiton" is a bunch of veins. They look like track lines form someone using heroin. The graphics look like cartoons and are really ugly.

I disagree with the muscle definition aspect. I think they do look quite good muscular wise and have the correct muscle shading and "bulge" of real muscles. I do agree with you the graphics are more "cartoony" but I don't agree the graphics are ugly. I love ESPNs graphics better than Maddens and feel they do look more realistic (although I think ESPNs models in still form are quite ugly) but since I'm a guy who grew up on Tecmo Bowl and other games back when video games were games and didn't try to mirror real life as much in terms of 100% visual realism I don't mind Madden looking more cartoony (which IMO is mainly because of it's bright colour palette) because it looks quite good overall IMO.

I guess what I'm saying bottom line is I like both games for their looks but for different reasons and I don't think either one of them look ugly.