Manual vs CPU catching

[wwharton]

you don't understand the running style of ESPN. using the speed burst does only help him so much. you can button mash all you want but better players will either charge up or most likely do nothing b/c the speed is assessed accurately. instead you wait to do a stiff arm, spin, juke or speed burst once you get past the defense... a very important thing since in ESPN backs actually have to make people miss or break tackles rather than try not to get touched. button mashers are usually the same people that complain b/c they can't get many rushing yards. there's no question that ESPN's handling of running the ball from the line blocking to the rb's moves and the need to use them is MUCH better than EA's football games. Madden is better on the other side of the ball against the run but no way does it come close on the offensive side.

[nxt]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

you don't understand the running style of ESPN. using the speed burst does only help him so much. you can button mash all you want but better players will either charge up or most likely do nothing b/c the speed is assessed accurately. instead you wait to do a stiff arm, spin, juke or speed burst once you get past the defense... a very important thing since in ESPN backs actually have to make people miss or break tackles rather than try not to get touched. button mashers are usually the same people that complain b/c they can't get many rushing yards. there's no question that ESPN's handling of running the ball from the line blocking to the rb's moves and the need to use them is MUCH better than EA's football games. Madden is better on the other side of the ball against the run but no way does it come close on the offensive side.

You're probably right. Perhaps I never got a good grasp of the running game in ESPN or how it is supposed to be played. BTW, I wasn't really into the charge-up feature either. Although, I did like the way the line played on both sides of the ball on ESPN versus Madden. Like I said, it's just a personal preference. Just like manual catching versus CPU catching... everyone has their own way of playing the game.

[CrossYaOva23]

I just make the throw, and let the CPU handle the catching.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by nxt

You're probably right. Perhaps I never got a good grasp of the running game in ESPN or how it is supposed to be played. BTW, I wasn't really into the charge-up feature either. Although, I did like the way the line played on both sides of the ball on ESPN versus Madden. Like I said, it's just a personal preference. Just like manual catching versus CPU catching... everyone has their own way of playing the game.

The charge isn't really necessary either. I think its most useful feature is stringing moves together which "can" look cool if the timing is right but usually results in a couple of back to back spins or back to back shoulder charges. The only time I use the charge is when I want to dive over the pile for a first down or td (another great rb feature in the game). But even without the charge too many people abuse the speed burst button. Even the analog stick is pressure sensative so you can adjust your running speed and ability to cut much better by pushing on it with different amounts of pressure. The speed burst really should be used for just that. They really were pretty close on getting the running down with no snags. Unfortunately, LBs take incorrect angles and don't explode through holes and blitzing safeties don't lineup close to the line as they should, among other things so the real problem is defending the run realistically.

[nxt]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

The charge isn't really necessary either. I think its most useful feature is stringing moves together which "can" look cool if the timing is right but usually results in a couple of back to back spins or back to back shoulder charges. The only time I use the charge is when I want to dive over the pile for a first down or td (another great rb feature in the game). But even without the charge too many people abuse the speed burst button. Even the analog stick is pressure sensative so you can adjust your running speed and ability to cut much better by pushing on it with different amounts of pressure. The speed burst really should be used for just that. They really were pretty close on getting the running down with no snags. Unfortunately, LBs take incorrect angles and don't explode through holes and blitzing safeties don't lineup close to the line as they should, among other things so the real problem is defending the run realistically.

Yeah, diving over the pile was great! I love playing on defense ( I don't switch players). and I love playing as FS in Madden & NCAA, but never got the hang of it in 2K5. Although, playing as DE and MLB was fun in 2K5.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by nxt

My point is that I'd prefer that the player ratings determine how fast or effective the juke moves are. I don't like having to button mash as fast as I can to increase the speed of my back or receiver. If my back has a 70 speed and the speed burst can only help him so much... so be it.

This is one of the few things I don't like about ESPN; having to tap the speed burst button instead of holding it down a la Madden.

But the end result is the same. Regardless of how fast you tap the button, there is a cap on how fast each player would run, and it is based on his speen rating.

[coogrfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

But the end result is the same. Regardless of how fast you tap the button, there is a cap on how fast each player would run, and it is based on his speen rating.

I don't believe that is true. In a breakaway situation in ESPN, where it's a case of the ballcarrier vs a single trailing defender, a skilled button masher had an enormous advantage. If the b/c and def. had roughly equal speed ratings, the gamer who could tap the fastest inevitably won. If the b/c had a significantly higher rating, but the gamer chasing was much better at button mashing, the "faster" player would get run down from behind more often than not.

I have had this discussion with some of the 2k guru's here in the past, and while I understood the reasons they gave for defending this game-mechanic (mainly an increased level involvement of the gamer in the onscreen action), from a sim point of view it just doesn't make much sense. Randy Moss' top speed should not depend on the gamers reflexes, it should be an absolute. For that reason, I feel that the Madden/NCAA sprint button betters simulates a player breaking into the open and kicking it into another gear.

[wwharton]

I think you're taking the discussion to another level that will go around in circles but here I go, lol. Speed burst really is just that. You can say if the two players were next to each other and I tap faster than you then I'll win and that's not right. Well I think that's a better approach and you don't and that will never change. But the bottom line is that is almost never the case. It really only comes into play in the open field as it should and even then you must consider angles and the momentum already gathered by the runner. Many times you could outrun the defense without even touching the speed burst b/c of the angles and the speed rating alone.

I think some don't understand that you could play every single game of 2k5 without touching the speed burst and still get a range of speed and ability to cut sharp or not based on just your pressure on the analog stick. The difference between tapping and not tapping really isn't big enough to complain about. Some people NEVER use the speed burst. The argument between the two styles is really analog stick vs holding down the button. Complaining about button mashing or charging are excuses for other areas that may be problematic but not as clear to identify... kinda like saying "They shouldn't have done create a fan b/c it took away from time to develop gameplay" when the reality is it probably didn't have anything to do with it.

Defending the run and after the catch has some issues as well as certain hard cuts or bounces, etc. when you have the ball but they aren't related to the speed burst.