Will the lead block pancaking be a game killer for you?

[sroz39]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

I don't think it's a matter of EA thinking people don't want realism, I think it's a matter of ability. Sports is always hard to replicate realistically due to the vast amount of variables. American Football is without a doubt one of the most complex sports in existence - it's mental and physical, different positions, different layers of mental activity. Then you add the fact it's a contact sport with very little ball movement (unlike, say, Rugby) and that makes replicating the actual physical interaction a nightmare from a programmer's perspective. I tend to think the reason EA don't strive for ultra realism in Madden is because if they tried, it could put the series in long term trouble if they failed. You can easily scan a player's face for realistic graphics, but you can't scan their brain for AI. I think EA are gradually trying to make Madden realistic with each release but they want something to fall back on - easy, fun, arcade gameplay. Madden has created this audience and must continue to feed it otherwise they risk losing it all.

In a nutshell, this is why Madden is the way it is. Always good, but never great. Excellent post.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

I don't think it's a matter of EA thinking people don't want realism, I think it's a matter of ability. Sports is always hard to replicate realistically due to the vast amount of variables.

Good post. I think AI for most/all sports are difficult to program for really. Programmers that do the great job of making you believe there's actual cpu intelligence deserve much respect.

I don't think what Madden needs is ultra-realism though. Even though people say that's what they want, a really ultra-realistic game would turn most people off imo. The problem with Madden is that it's at the other end of the spectrum; it's ultra-simplistic. I think if Tiburon addressed a few of the game's problem areas in the right way it would allow for that sort of granular level of difficulty, where people can jump in and pick up and play the game, but more skilled players that are given additional options benefit.

I think the defense right now looks to have been an afterthought. When I look at the game, no defender stands out - they all seem like cookie-cutter images, just out there as fodder for the offense. Lack of defensive playmaker is going to make it even less fun playing on defense. Improving player interaction, giving players more options on defense (ability to shed blocks, use hands as DBs) would've gone a long way towards extending the gameplay without overly complicating it. This is the disappointment, because it seems they either don't take certain aspects of the game into account or they outright choose to ignore them.

[bigfnjoe96]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I think the defense right now looks to have been an afterthought. When I look at the game, no defender stands out - they all seem like cookie-cutter images, just out there as fodder for the offense. Lack of defensive playmaker is going to make it even less fun playing on defense. Improving player interaction, giving players more options on defense (ability to shed blocks, use hands as DBs) would've gone a long way towards extending the gameplay without overly complicating it. This is the disappointment, because it seems they either don't take certain aspects of the game into account or they outright choose to ignore them.

This is something that is alarming for me. I love to game online & I can see people taking advantage of flawed DB AI all game long. Especially if the running game isn't working.

Hopefuly on the higher levels the DB's will be react better, but from all the video's I've seen, I doubt-it...

[sroz39]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I think the defense right now looks to have been an afterthought. When I look at the game, no defender stands out - they all seem like cookie-cutter images, just out there as fodder for the offense. Lack of defensive playmaker is going to make it even less fun playing on defense. Improving player interaction, giving players more options on defense (ability to shed blocks, use hands as DBs) would've gone a long way towards extending the gameplay without overly complicating it. This is the disappointment, because it seems they either don't take certain aspects of the game into account or they outright choose to ignore them.

Agreed 100%. And I remember a few years back on a wishlist thread, mentioning how defense should just totally be redone with a new control scheme and gameplay. Funny part? There's a game that's incorporating what I was referring to. Guesses? NHL 07 on the 360. Do away with the face buttons, and make the two a sticks the focal point of the control scheme.

The 360 controller has two trigger buttons on each side. Defence should constitute of not much more than the two sticks, with the left one controlling your movement, and the right one controlling your hands. The triggers would be modifiers, so that you could make the "hands" stick co-ordinate to the context of the play i.e. for pass defense, hold down the right bumper and the right stick would then control your hands batting the ball down or catching it. For breaking off blocks, you hold down the left bumper and the right stick would control different "moves" to shed blocks.

It would obviously be more in depth than what I'm just referring to, but I think you get my drift. It would make defense VERY interactive, and leave nothing to the AI to decide for you. At the same time, do away with the turbo button, make that whole aspect of the game ratings based, and you have a more realistic game that would be very deep on the defensive side of the ball.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigfnjoe96

This is something that is alarming for me. I love to game online & I can see people taking advantage of flawed DB AI all game long. Especially if the running game isn't working. Hopefuly on the higher levels the DB's will be react better, but from all the video's I've seen, I doubt-it...

Again you're making an awful lot of assumptions based on some PR videos released on the internet.

You maybe right, but lets play the game before deciding what the weak points of the AI are.

[sroz39]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Again you're making an awful lot of assumptions based on some PR videos released on the internet. You maybe right, but lets play the game before deciding what the weak points of the AI are.

Actually, I think that in Moos' impressions from Community Day, he mentioned that this is still a problem. Not for me personally, because I'll just switch to the db to make the play, but I hope in SS Mode when I'm the MLB, it doesn't become a problem with my teammates playing in the secondary.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by sroz39

Actually, I think that in Moos' impressions from Community Day, he mentioned that this is still a problem. Not for me personally, because I'll just switch to the db to make the play, but I hope in SS Mode when I'm the MLB, it doesn't become a problem with my teammates playing in the secondary.

Again, what maybe a problem for some, may not be for others.

I share your concern, as this seems to be a problem just about all video football games have. I am just not going to say the sky is falling until I see it for myself. If you know what I mean.

[sroz39]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Again, what maybe a problem for some, may not be for others. I share your concern, as this seems to be a problem just about all video football games have. I am just not going to say the sky is falling until I see it for myself. If you know what I mean.

It's funny, because Madden 2005 had overly good db play, with very few routes that worked unless you played on lower difficulty levels, and in "The year of the D", it too was a little unbalanced.

I don't think any company has ever gotten the db play to play anything more than adequate. The most broken part of 2k5's gameplay was the very poor db play, and they nailed pretty much every other aspect of the gameplay, which just goes to show how difficult is actually is to make this play realistically, without giving the AI any "boosts".