The cone was a brilliant idea. Here's why:

[TheKingOfVa]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cj7298419

While I am not the biggest Ben Roth. fan, I have to totally disagree with you on that entire statement with the exception that he didn't play well in the Super Bowl. To say that he's only 24, the kid is far ahead in his learning curve of the most difficult position to learn in the NFL. In just two seasons, he has taken his team deep in the playoffs the first year, then wins the Superbowl the next. Even though we don't get much Steelers games down here in New Orleans, from the nationally televised games I've seen, Ben makes good decisions at key times. I just don't see how you could say he's "overrated."

He missed several routine throws in the playoffs. For a 24 year old QB he is amazing but by no means is he an elite QB. You say he has taken his team deep in the playoffs but actually his team took him deep in the playoffs. Peyton Manning is a player who puts his team on his back with 300 yard 3 td games. Big Ben is a game manager. That's my point. You ask how I can say he is overrated. Just look at the Super Bowl, the best Steelers pass during the game was from a WR.

Now to the Steelers fan who probably lives in Florida, The Steelers do have a solid offense of Wr's and Te's. They pass less than any team in the NFL on a regular basis so they don't really need a Colts WR corps. TE Heath Miller played amazing last year, Hines Ward always does his job, and the other wr's played solid. Once again keep in mind that they don't pass alot so they don't need an elite WR core. I never said Big Ben wasn't a good QB because he is but he didn't carry his team to the Super Bowl win his team carried him. Big Ben is not an elite QB and he rarely ever throws more than 20 times a game so you can't compare his WR corps to QB's who play on pass happy teams. That makes no sense. Of course Peyton Manning has better WR's because they are a pass happy offense and the Steelers passed less than any team in the NFL over the Big Ben era.

[Cutwolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheKingOfVa

He missed several routine throws in the playoffs. For a 24 year old QB he is amazing but by no means is he an elite QB. You say he has taken his team deep in the playoffs but actually his team took him deep in the playoffs. Peyton Manning is a player who puts his team on his back with 300 yard 3 td games. Big Ben is a game manager. That's my point. You ask how I can say he is overrated. Just look at the Super Bowl, the best Steelers pass during the game was from a WR. Now to the Steelers fan who probably lives in Florida, The Steelers do have a solid offense of Wr's and Te's. They pass less than any team in the NFL on a regular basis so they don't really need a Colts WR corps. TE Heath Miller played amazing last year, Hines Ward always does his job, and the other wr's played solid. Once again keep in mind that they don't pass alot so they don't need an elite WR core. I never said Big Ben wasn't a good QB because he is but he didn't carry his team to the Super Bowl win his team carried him. Big Ben is not an elite QB and he rarely ever throws more than 20 times a game so you can't compare his WR corps to QB's who play on pass happy teams. That makes no sense. Of course Peyton Manning has better WR's because they are a pass happy offense and the Steelers passed less than any team in the NFL over the Big Ben era.

The fact you said Peyton carries his team and Ben doesn't just shows you're terrible at life.

In the 2 years prior to Big Ben, the Steelers are 16-15-1.

The 2 years with Big Ben, the Steelers are 26-6-0.

Personnel has remained remarkably consistant. Coaching has remained remarkably consistant. Whats the difference? Why didn't we win a SB with any other QBs despite our dominant team?

Why is it that in Big Ben's 2 years, he is 24-2 in the regular season (quick math, I might be off by a game or two). Other Steelers QBs the past 2 years? 3-3.

Explain how Big Ben has lost less games in 26 regular season games than the other Steelers QBs have lost in the 6 he missed?

Explain the discrepancy if Big Ben doesn't carry the team?

Big Ben IS the Steelers.

[TheKingOfVa]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cutwolf

The fact you said Peyton carries his team and Ben doesn't just shows you're terrible at life. In the 2 years prior to Big Ben, the Steelers are 16-15-1. The 2 years with Big Ben, the Steelers are 26-6-0. Personnel has remained remarkably consistant. Coaching has remained remarkably consistant. Whats the difference? Why didn't we win a SB with any other QBs despite our dominant team? Why is it that in Big Ben's 2 years, he is 24-2 in the regular season (quick math, I might be off by a game or two). Other Steelers QBs the past 2 years? 3-3. Explain how Big Ben has lost less games in 26 regular season games than the other Steelers QBs have lost in the 6 he missed? Explain the discrepancy if Big Ben doesn't carry the team? Big Ben IS the Steelers.

I'm going to end this debate with this since it's obvious your a biased Steelers fan who probably lives in Florida. I can't have a mature debate with you because you have to say things like I'm "terrible at life" because I think Manning is a better QB then No Helmet Ben.

Put Manning on the Steelers and they still play as well. Put Ben on the Colts and they crash and burn. Manning carries his team. He throws over 25 times per game, he is the focal point of the offense and the team.

Big Ben doesn't carry his team. He rarely throws over 25 times a game, the running game is the focus of the offense, and the focal point of the team is the Defense. Troy P, Joey Porter, and that D is the Steelers. Big Ben has never had a 3,000 30 td season yet Manning has almost had a 5,000 yard 50 td season. You can't honestly think Big Ben is a better qb than Peyton Manning. Also what state are you located in because the Steelers have "fans"coming out the wood work.

[Cutwolf]

Oh, and you say Big Ben doesn't throw more than 20 times a game. I beg to differ.

His stats in games throwing 20 times or more:

In 21 games (out of 31 total he has played in) he threw 20 times or more.

31 TDs, 18 INTs.

In 2004, he was 14 TDs and 11 INTs in games he threw 20 times or more.

In 2005, he was 17 TDs, 7 INTs in games he threw 20 times or more.

In the 2005 playoffs (3 games, not counting the SB), he was:

49/72 (68%), 680 yards, 7 TDs, 1 INT

An average of:

16/24 227 yards 2 TDs per game. In the playoffs against the top teams.

Get off him. Hes elite.

Quote:

Big Ben doesn't carry his team. He rarely throws over 20 times a game, the running game is the focus of the offense, and the focal point of the team is the Defense. Troy P, Joey Porter, and that D is the Steelers. Big Ben has never had a 3,000 30 td season yet Manning has almost had a 5,000 yard 50 td season. You can't honestly think Big Ben is a better qb than Peyton Manning. Also what state are you located in because the Steelers have "fans"coming out the wood work.

I just proved you wrong. Know your stats before you talk. He throws 20 or more times in nearly 70% of his games.

I'm in New Jersey. Whats it matter? You're going to accuse me of being a bandwagoner? Go ahead. I bleed black and gold. I'm a season ticket holder. The Steelers season ticket waiting list is 15 years. Not sure how I could possibly have bandwagoned on.

I've been rooting for the Steelers before you knew what a race card was.

[Anaxamander]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cutwolf

The fact you said Peyton carries his team and Ben doesn't just shows you're terrible at life. In the 2 years prior to Big Ben, the Steelers are 16-15-1. The 2 years with Big Ben, the Steelers are 26-6-0. Personnel has remained remarkably consistant. Coaching has remained remarkably consistant. Whats the difference? Why didn't we win a SB with any other QBs despite our dominant team? Why is it that in Big Ben's 2 years, he is 24-2 in the regular season (quick math, I might be off by a game or two). Other Steelers QBs the past 2 years? 3-3. Explain how Big Ben has lost less games in 26 regular season games than the other Steelers QBs have lost in the 6 he missed? Explain the discrepancy if Big Ben doesn't carry the team? Big Ben IS the Steelers.

You win the thread.

[TheKingOfVa]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cutwolf

Oh, and you say Big Ben doesn't throw more than 20 times a game. I beg to differ. His stats in games throwing 20 times or more: In 21 games (out of 31 total he has played in) he threw 20 times or more. 31 TDs, 18 INTs. In 2004, he was 14 TDs and 11 INTs in games he threw 20 times or more. In 2005, he was 17 TDs, 7 INTs in games he threw 20 times or more. In the 2005 playoffs (3 games, not counting the SB), he was: 49/72 (68%), 680 yards, 7 TDs, 1 INT An average of: 16/24 227 yards 2 TDs per game. In the playoffs against the top teams. Get off him. Hes elite. I just proved you wrong. Know your stats before you talk. He throws 20 or more times in nearly 70% of his games. I'm in New Jersey. Whats it matter? You're going to accuse me of being a bandwagoner? Go ahead. I bleed black and gold. I'm a season ticket holder. The Steelers season ticket waiting list is 15 years. Not sure how I could possibly have bandwagoned on. I've been rooting for the Steelers before you knew what a race card was.

I meant to say 25 times a game due to the fact that almost all starting qb's throw more than 20 times per contest. The stats you just posted weren't elite qb stats. You could double Big Ben's stats for any of his seasons and have a typical year stats wise for Peyton Manning. An elite QB throws over 3,000 yards and 20 plus td's with less than 12 int's. An elite QB is the focal point of his offense. An elite qb can't be on a team who runs the most in the league and throws the less over the last 3 years. You live in Jersey and are a fan of a team that has been a winning team over the last 30 years, you qualify as a bandwagon fan. Now if you were a Cardinals fan in Jersey that would be ok because they have sucked over the years and you have to be a true fan to stick with them. Um you brought up the race card not me so I don't get your point in bringing that up to end your statement.


Now I must ask you once again Jersey Steelers fan, Would you take Big Ben over Peyton Manning? And do you think Big Ben is the better qb?


Go Jersey Steelers!

[Cutwolf]

Quote:

I meant to say 25 times a game due to the fact that almost all starting qb's throw more than 20 times per contest. The stats you just posted weren't elite qb stats. You could double Big Ben's stats for any of his seasons and have a typical year stats wise for Peyton Manning. An elite QB throws over 3,000 yards and 20 plus td's with less than 12 int's.

Using your logic:

John Elway was only an elite QB in 3 seasons (out of 16)? He only threw for more than 20 TDs and less than 12 INTs 3 times.

Joe Montana was only an elite QB in 2 seasons (out of 16)

Tom brady has NEVER been an elite quarterback.

I could go on and on all day.

Lets see you backpedal again.

Quote:

ou live in Jersey and are a fan of a team that has been a winning team over the last 30 years, you qualify as a bandwagon fan. Now if you were a Cardinals fan in Jersey that would be ok because they have sucked over the years and you have to be a true fan to stick with them. Um you brought up the race card not me so I don't get your point in bringing that up to end your statement.

Yes, because we all know the Steelers were such a powerhouse in the 80s.

Actually, from 86-93 the Steelers were crappyy. Don't forget 98, 99, and 00.

So I've been a fan for 20 years...11 of them, the Steelers finished 9-7 or lower.

You really just talk out of your ***, don't you?

Quote:

Now I must ask you once again Jersey Steelers fan, Would you take Big Ben over Peyton Manning? And do you think Big Ben is the better qb?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Skerik]

I feel like we're not talking about the cone anymore.

Locked.