I have a problem, and I'll admit it.

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

But one thing that's different is that the guys working on mlb2k7 told everyone what to expect. They said it would be a three year project and the game that's out now is much better than 2k6. EA on the otherhand tells people that they've "completely rewritten the code" every year and then you play it and it's the same old thing in a new box. That's why people are so frustrated with EA, especially with Madden.

I partially agree with you on that. Although I don't think EA/Madden said they rewrote the entire engine/code every year. Only the first year they moved to next-gen systems, but I could be wrong on that.

While MLB2K7 is better than 2K6, I think there's a lot of the same game there and a lot of the same bugs. I know others have stated otherwise, but the more I play, the more I see a lot of 2K6 in this game...it's just wrapped up in a prettier bow. Part of my problem with that game is that many of the well known issues that have plagued the game for a few years still plague the game today.

Just my opinion, but if they tell us from day 1 that it's a 3 year plan, shouldn't years 1 and 2 be released at a reduced price? Same goes for pretty much any sports game regardless of producer.

With all that said, I agree with DQ's point above. Sports gaming as a whole seems to be in bad shape. I don't have a dog in the 2K vs EA fight as neither company pays me to promote them - so why would I support one over the other? I just like to point out that 2K and EA are a lot more similar than many might want to believe. Both are businesses that value the bottom line more than the consumer. It's a shame sports gaming has come to this, but it has. I think both companies are putting out some pretty poor next gen games that have left a lot of us wanting more.

[N51_rob]

I used to be a Madden lover right up through Madden 2004. Then 2k5 game out a month earlier and for $20. SO I took a flier on it. It was like I had been living in a hole. THe game played great. The running game was like I had never seen before, when they called penaltied you could actually see the infraction taking place. The presentation was Amazing. There were problems to the most glaring for me was the secondaries were weak the middle of the field was to easy to pass on for one. I only rented Madden 05 and only played it for about 2 days. Then the exclusivity deal happens. I was up set and I ripped EA like most did.

I think that part of the reason that 2k get a "pass" as far as next gen for me is they are trying things. Their first releases for the 360 were feature rich and looked pretty good. While the first 360 releases from EA were stripped down and would seem that they were put out just to make a buck. This year's madden for me was jsut blah at best. It wasn't playable to me something wasn't right. I do love the NCAA series and still play 07 to this day.

For me EA has been reading to much of their own press and have gotten lazy. Remember Madden 96? THat game was so bad the they decided not to release the game. I still to this day have the utmost respect for that move by them. They decided to not screw the consumers with a buggy and overall crappy game. Then they killed the Tripple Play series and made MVP again I respect this they took a dying franchise and saved it. Why won't they do this with live? I haven bought an NBA Live in 3 years. While I agree the MLB 2k6 was a failure and got no "pass" from me. This years version is great fun. It has bug and problems but the game is fun to play and a fairly accurate representation of what I see when I go to a game or watch one on TV. While I am no EA *****, I am a fed up consumer who has spent $120 dollars on a football game that I take no pleasure and joy from anymore. To me spending that money on Madden 2 years in a row was like giving EA a pass.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by mjb2124

That's true, but I think it depends on the person. I've seen a lot of problems in MLB2K7 that people let slide or say "It's not a big deal" or "We can fix it", but with Madden those same problems are game killers and un-fixable. I'm not saying everyone does this, but there are some.

We've seen that "we can fix it/I can put up with that quirk" mentality w/many games - High Heat, MVP05, NFL2K5, Inside Drive, etc - even Madden itself (remember the Madden Manifesto?). It's all about how the game's positives compare to the game's negatives. MLB2K7 positives far outweigh it's negatives (for most people), and makes you excited about the future of the title. You don't get that with Madden. Who would be shocked if EA goes another year with the one-man booth? If all QBs still have that fundamental high school level drop back? If Plaxico Burress has the same build as David Boston? And probably more troubling, it's actually gone backwards in key areas (presentation, extra features/options). The one area where it's improved considerably (graphics) is compromised by the awkward/goofy animations. Does EA/Tiburon even make an attempt to add anything that could be considered "the little things" that are subtle but people appreciate?

If anything Madden's the game that has gotten the free pass, and because the game's quality has been in a gradual decline people have gotten more hostile towards it. Having exclusivity just brings even more scrutiny towards it. I remember the days where these boards were filled with people posting about local tournaments, people writing books on improving the gameplay, people talking about great games... all of that is gone, and it's not because people just want to hate on Madden. Even the guy (one of them) that wrote the Madden Manifesto became fed up and bailed on the game last year or the year before I think

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

It's all about how the game's positives compare to the game's negatives. MLB2K7 positives far outweigh it's negatives (for most people), and makes you excited about the future of the title. If anything Madden's the game that has gotten the free pass, and because the game's quality has been in a gradual decline people have gotten more hostile towards it. Having exclusivity just brings even more scrutiny towards it. I remember the days where these boards were filled with people posting about local tournaments, people writing books on improving the gameplay, people talking about great games... all of that is gone, and it's not because people just want to hate on Madden. Even the guy (one of them) that wrote the Madden Manifesto became fed up and bailed on the game last year or the year before I think

It's all opinion, but I disagree MLB2K7's positives far outweigh the negatives and that the future looks bright. Maybe if you're into pretty over substance, but I prefer a game that plays better on the field. Sure it does look good and the presentation is top notch, but looks don't keep me coming back to the game after a few months. It is better than last year, but IMO not leaps and bounds as some have said. The game still freezes more than any game should and still has some poor scoring glitches, bad roster AI and a broken franchise. A walk is an unearned run in MLB2K7? An error is an earned run in MLB2K7? Saves aren't credited at times when they should be? C'mon... That's basic stuff 2K and ruins a lot of stat tracking which is the basis for baseball. I'm letting the franchise stuff slide (even though the problems have been in the game for a few years and STILL haven't been fixed) because I'm holding out hope that they'll fix it in the next 2 years. Of course, if this were Madden's franchise that was having these problems, people would be freaking out (and yes it does have issues, but not to the extent of the one's that have plagued 2K's baseball series).

I don't think Madden gets a free pass by any means. It's bashed left and right on these forums and many other forums just like it. Everything you stated is why it doesn't get a free pass....and rightfully so. It doesn't play an exciting or good game of football.

Like I said, I don't take sides in the 2K/EA stuff and I don't see why anyone in their right mind would support one over the other unless they get a paycheck from said company. Frankly, I'm not impressed with either company. I just want good games from both companies in both sports that really interest me (football and baseball). Right now neither company is delivering.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by mjb2124

Frankly, I'm not impressed with either company. I just want good games from both companies in both sports that really interest me (football and baseball). Right now neither company is delivering.

I agree w/you, it's mostly a matter of opinion. But if you feel neither company is delivering, I'd have to argue one's (EA) doing a MUCH worse job than the other. Your points about the statistical issues in MLB2K is taken, but if you read the various posts that pop up there and on other boards you can take away that most people find it enjoyable, despite it's faults. NBA2K7 has it's faults also, but it's widely regarded as the best pro basketball game to date. Same with College Hoops. They're only other title is NHL2K7, which I know little about - but I don't recall people having wide disdain for it.

Madden 2004 regularly had people placing 75+pt scores in 5min quarters, yet people found that fun. NBA Live's slam dunking, freestyling ways of then were also more appreciated than what was out at the time. Contrasting what EA was doing back then, what VC is doing now, with what EA is doing now w/Madden and NBA Live and I don't think there's a comparison. NHL07 seems to have been a breath of fresh air and has people excited, but it's apparently shallow. Same for Fight Night. Their college basketball game seems to at least be decent. Either way, I wouldn't lump the two companies together personally.

Also, I don't think the situation with APF2K8 can be understated - we're talking about a generic football game that people are actually looking forward to. A completely fictional league, based off of a lot of Joe Young-is-really-Barry Bonds players. To me that speaks volumes to how lowly Madden is regarded, and how little respect it deserves. I say Madden mostly gets a pass because even with this situation, you see influential sites like IGN rate the game 8+, EBGames and Gamestop reserving portions of floorspace to hype the titles - there are a ton of factors that go into building this perception that Madden is better than it actually is.

[TeeDogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

If anything Madden's the game that has gotten the free pass,

the biggest free pass in the history of sports gaming!

[mjb2124]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I say Madden mostly gets a pass because even with this situation, you see influential sites like IGN rate the game 8+, EBGames and Gamestop reserving portions of floorspace to hype the titles - there are a ton of factors that go into building this perception that Madden is better than it actually is.

I got ya. I honestly don't pay much attention to reviews from any other site so I don't know much about what they've said regarding Madden. I do know OS has been tough on Madden in general so I don't notice the free pass around here. I also know what you mean about Gamestop and EB. I attribute much of that to EA's marketing....they send the placards and other stuff to GS/EB due to the deep marketing pockets that they have. With that said, when I purchased MLB2K7 at GS, the guy asked about pre-orders and mentioned Madden as well as APF2K8. I was a little surprised to hear him mention APF2K8....although this GS is actually pretty good (aside from the harassment to pre-order everything under the sun).

I see a lot of Madden bashing throughout forums and this is why I thought it was odd to say that Madden gets a free pass. Like you said, even some of the staunchest Madden supporters over the years are tiring of the same thing year in and year out. When it's biggest supporters start jumping ship, I tend to think that the free pass it might have got in the past is no longer there.

[fatstrat]

How many more threads do we need about this.....seriously.

We all have problems with this game. I have to agree with 90% of it, but still!!