Everyone Chime in - Not a Whine Thread

[mr_president]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I agree with Tomb. Now I also will say the DB A.I in 2k needs some work but primarily animation work, namely to let you have more control over it instead of making the DB go away from the ball. I think both games need some fundamentals work especially with zone coverage. The one thing I hate with cover 3 zone coverage in both games is that after a few yards the DB just turns his back to the WR and QB and starts running. How can you know where the hell the WR is when you have your back turned and are just running up the field blindly? Both games need work in that department. But the thing that 2k does is that if a guy is out of place and beaten then you just have to accept it. He cannot get back over on some other route and make a play and that's pretty realistic. The thing that EA has done is if the CB is out of place and not even looking he can still get back on some other route that he should have no clue is even being ran in that area. That makes it feel like CHEATING instead of authentic DB A.I. Here is a classic example. Go to the bills playbook and call Singleback Tight Slots Drag Cross Ups Flipped. Motion the right slot over to the left and give him a streak. Be sure the D is in cover 3. Now watch the CB. He's going to take off after the streak. You have a wheel/rail route the is going to come behind that, but it's going to be about 10to 15 yards behind it. That CB that chases the streak he never looks back at the wheel/rail route but if you throw it to the WR running that route, that CB will be there to either defend it or even intercept it. Yeah 2k's DB A.I is bad, but at least when a guy is beat he's beat and if a coverage is beaten it is beaten. But here they get the guys to cheat because people complained so much about certain routes. There is no way that CB should even be away of this route if he's running full stride with the streak. But like I said if you think you are going to dump it behind that CB chasing the streak you are mistaken. But alas, just go deep with a fast WR and you should get it. But it's just stupid for him to come back 15 yards to defend a route that is wide open. I can get pass it and still enjoy the game, but it is not where it needs to be. If a guy is beat then he is beat. But because everyone complained about certain routes then now nobody can get beat per se.

well put LB and i agree 100%...

except it's much harder for me to get past it.....to see a well designed play executed to perfection get blown up by shoddy programming really bugs me.

[LBzrule]

Quote:

it makes making some plays on offense almost impossible....

You can still move the ball though. But what it feels like is a knee jerk reaction to everyone's complaint about certain routes such as deep balls, corners and curls. Yes people complained about them and rightfully so, but to make it now where the DB does unrealistic things feels more like a shortcut rather than dealing with the real problem. So now what people will do is just try to exploit the A.I to find ways to pass the ball and they will do it because that's in here too. It's a greatly improved Madden and I really like the game and am going to play it a ton, but the shortcuts instead of dealing with the real issues have to stop by both EA and VC.

[mr_president]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

You can still move the ball though. But what it feels like is a knee jerk reaction to everyone's complaint about certain routes such as deep balls, corners and curls. Yes people complained about them and rightfully so, but to make it now where the DB does unrealistic things feels more like a shortcut rather than dealing with the real problem. So now what people will do is just try to exploit the A.I to find ways to pass the ball and they will do it because that's in here too. It's a greatly improved Madden and I really like the game and am going to play it a ton, but the shortcuts instead of dealing with the real issues have to stop by both EA and VC.

echo,echo,echo.....i made similar statements a few years ago only to be met with negative reactions....here's to hoping they(VC & EA) get it together

[IStillDoWhatIDo]

Actually, in most GOOD offenses in the NFL, the receiver knows where the ball is supposed to be. All of those players in the Colts offense know exactly where the ball is SUPPOSED to be, which is why Peyton Manning throws to the spot, not to the receiver.

The DBs this year are very challenging - I agree. But in real life, it is hard to get execute a good pass for positive gain.

It was WAY too easy to score in Madden 07 and below. The last game I played online the final score was like 69-53. It is HARD to score in this madden, and it brings the game back to a game of field positioning and strategy. There does need to be a balance though because it is a game after all.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

Actually, in most GOOD offenses in the NFL, the receiver knows where the ball is supposed to be. All of those players in the Colts offense know exactly where the ball is SUPPOSED to be, which is why Peyton Manning throws to the spot, not to the receiver. The DBs this year are very challenging - I agree. But in real life, it is hard to get execute a good pass for positive gain. It was WAY too easy to score in Madden 07 and below. The last game I played online the final score was like 69-53. It is HARD to score in this madden, and it brings the game back to a game of field positioning and strategy. There does need to be a balance though because it is a game after all.

I agree with this. But the thing is, in real life the DB does not know where the ball is supposed to be. He has to play the nearest WR. But in this game he doesn't play the WR per se, he plays the ball even when he's not looking at it And you are correct, it was way to easy to score in Madden 07 and previous versions, but don't think it will be too hard to score in this one. The saving grace will be that you can bring crazy pressure on D. When you get online you will see. Some people are going to be copping a crazy route on the right side of the field and if you do not run press man coverage against it you are going to get hurt and hurt bad.

[LetsGoPitt]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I agree with this. But the thing is, in real life the DB does not know where the ball is supposed to be. He has to play the nearest WR. But in this game he doesn't play the WR per se, he plays the ball even when he's not looking at it And you are correct, it was way to easy to score in Madden 07 and previous versions, but don't think it will be too hard to score in this one. The saving grace will be that you can bring crazy pressure on D. When you get online you will see. Some people are going to be copping a crazy route on the right side of the field and if you do not run press man coverage against it you are going to get hurt and hurt bad.

You're right, and it's a problem that has plagued EA football games for years. I've played a lot more NCAA than Madden lately, but the "precog" nature is still there. The worst for me is when the DB actually makes the route cut BEFORE the receiver. This is especially obvious when you have a lousy receiver who run the wrong way. Not to mention the "swarming" effect that occurs where all of the DBs stop following their receivers and turn to go after the ball the second it is thrown. This takes away from being able to make big gains if you do manage to throw off your original DB, because there are already 3+ more going after you.

And while I think IStill's comment is 100% correct, I think he was confused about the offense precog problem. No matter how good the receiver/QB are, if the QB is forced to throw the ball early. the receiver probably won't be looking for it. In fact, I would argue that it'd be ever WORSE for someone like Manning, because the receiver is so accustomed to running to a spot and having the ball be there, that he probably wouldn't even think to look for the ball way early.

To add insult to injury, the fact that you can get away with blocking a receiver's route 15 yards downfield without penalty makes the psychic defense even worse.

[edubbs]

Quote: Originally Posted by LetsGoPitt

Not to mention the "swarming" effect that occurs where all of the DBs stop following their receivers and turn to go after the ball the second it is thrown.

Co-sign. The AI will magicly know where the ball is, even though the DB's have their back to the pass on the other side of the field. They all turn in unison towards wherever the ball is heading and disregard the receiver they are covering. It's impossible for someone in man coverage not looking at the QB to 'feel' the ball is being thrown and all of a sudden turn and react to something across the field.

I watched a replay of this happening today and was like WTF......It looked soo scripted and cheesey.

[cam780]

Quote: Originally Posted by TombSong

Come on guys, this is NOT a comparison of the 2 games thread. I made mention to AP2K8 as a point of reference, not to compare the games in general.

Not to be nitpicky and I don't necessarily know your post history but if you use a game as a point of reference that would be comparing. I can see where Mets thinks you'd be a apf fanboy because most of the time whenever someone does something to that affect its the first the thing I think. If you went the way of LB and acknowledged that APF has DB AI problems too it wouldn't have come across the same way but thats neither here nor there.