Quarterback Awareness; we need ideas

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boregard

The problem with limiting icons is the QB just called the play in the huddle, he knows what route every reciever is running, cuz he just told them the play, and at the NFL level most play calls include the routes the guys are supposed to run. And even in the systems where the route is not part of the terminology, you are not taking into account all the hours of practice and film study that these guys do within the team's direction, nevermind what many of them do on their own time!!!

What makes a bad QB BAD is that he doesn't grasp the playbook as well as a GOOD QB. During a play he's not 'aware' enough to work through his progressions properly and instead will lock on to primary receivers, throw late, inaccurately or not at all.

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boregard

The ideas should be to the advantage of the guys using high AWR QBs, not further ham-stringing the guys whose favorite team already sucks. The guy playing with the Dolphins shouldn't be limited any further, his team is already crappy. These ideas should benefit the guys using P. Manning, T. Brady, and whoever else you wanna say is a great QB with a high AWR!!!

QB AWR should not be extra forgiving or non-existent just because your favorite team and/or QB sucks. It's not a coincidence that good teams also have good QBs.

The game already gives us perfect vision of the entire field. As a result all QBs have perfect AWR when in human control. The idea is to make the AWR rating matter. In order to do this with the current view is to limit what the user can do when in control of a lesser QB.

[JedAustin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boregard

The problem with limiting icons is the QB just called the play in the huddle, he knows what route every reciever is running, cuz he just told them the play, and at the NFL level most play calls include the routes the guys are supposed to run. And even in the systems where the route is not part of the terminology, you are not taking into account all the hours of practice and film study that these guys do within the team's direction, nevermind what many of them do on their own time!!! The passing cone was flawed. Most importantly, it gave the better stick guys a huge advantage on D, because the cone functionality was a little clunky. I always liked the cone, cuz I would always choose a guy I was unlikely to throw to, and then switch just before I was going to throw. The second flaw was that because it was slightly slow, and required an extra set of button presses or a good deal of precise R-Stick manual control it caused guys to miss the "window of routes" when they really should not have. The ideas should be to the advantage of the guys using high AWR QBs, not further ham-stringing the guys whose favorite team already sucks. The guy playing with the Dolphins shouldn't be limited any further, his team is already crappy. These ideas should benefit the guys using P. Manning, T. Brady, and whoever else you wanna say is a great QB with a high AWR!!! The idea of limiting the number of of plays available to your team, based on the QB also doesn't take into account the terminology and practice issues from above. The only way this idea would be acceptable is if you were limited in the number of plays, but you could pick which plays you wanted available in your playbook! I hate camera tricks, the "big play cam", shaking, limiting what is on screen, the "breakaway" camera. The problem with these gimmicks is that it affects two player games in adverse ways. If your QB has limited views, then the guy playing D has a limited view. I still think a combination of the the three ideas I listed previously gives the great QBs an advantage, but without further penalizing a Madden gamer who sticks by his crappy (ratings wise) real favorite NFL team!

I see all your points here, but I would argue that the less intelligent QB's do in fact have less plays in their playbook. It is not unrealistic to think that Peyton Manning is able to take on more plays due to his better understanding of football.

If not limiting plays, at the very least you should limit their ability to call audibles at the line. To say the teams with worse QB's shouldn't be penalized is completely against the whole point of the discussion. Any system will do exactly that. If you're not on board with limiting lesser QB's effectiveness even if they play on a bad team, I'm not sure how we could ever see eye to eye.

I will agree with the problem of the camera idea, I don't play in person so I hadn't really considered it. I can see how you don't want to take away the defensive players view of the field. This leads me back to playcalling/audible limitations, removal of icons, extra pre snap information, and more frequent errant passes due to bad mechanics as the best ways to attempt to make a change.

I would like to reiterate that each of these can be done in any fashion you wish. It doesn't have to be that every play the guy only has 2 reads. It could be with good performance he works his way up to seeing all the receivers despite his low awarness. He could open up more plays/audibles. He could gain his compsure and quit having mental lapses that cause bad throws off his back foot. He could earn the right to some pre snap information.

I just think it is important to keep in mind that we WILL indeed be penalizing the lesser players in some fashion regardless of the team they play on. The stats needs to be reflected by human controlled QB's somehow. To the extent it is done, and how it is done is what the question is. To me there is no question that it needs to be done.

Some people seem to reluctant to have lesser players perform worse. No one complains when the slower, less talented running backs don't break as many tackles or run as fast as the better players. We are dealing with the same idea, it's just a mental aspect of the game we're trying to effect.

Perhaps a crappy running back on a crappy team shouldn't be crappy because it's not "fair" to the users of that team. The fact is we want a game where the players perform to their ratings. If you want to play a game where all players perform equal, maybe they should make that an option. I for one want Vince young to have a disadvantage other than his lowered accuracy.

[uiucjpo]

I've got a new idea here (that's the point of this thread right?) so here goes:

When players "get it," they always say that the game "slowed down" for them. What if for QB's with low AWR (I'm looking at you Rex!), the pass plays played much faster, giving the user less time to make a decision? Whereas for someone like Peyton Manning, the pass plays could actually slow down a bit to make it easier to read a defense. This would not significantly change the game like a vision cone, or disappearing icons.

I realize that there would be issues with multiplayer and controlling the defense, but hey, its an idea...

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by uiucjpo

I've got a new idea here (that's the point of this thread right?) so here goes: When players "get it," they always say that the game "slowed down" for them. What if for QB's with low AWR (I'm looking at you Rex!), the pass plays played much faster, giving the user less time to make a decision? Whereas for someone like Peyton Manning, the pass plays could actually slow down a bit to make it easier to read a defense. This would not significantly change the game like a vision cone, or disappearing icons. I realize that there would be issues with multiplayer and controlling the defense, but hey, its an idea...

There are a million cool ideas that could be implemented in a single player scenario. With multiplayer slowing down, speeding up or changing the view of the game just doesn't work.

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by JedAustin

I see all your points here, but I would argue that the less intelligent QB's do in fact have less plays in their playbook. It is not unrealistic to think that Peyton Manning is able to take on more plays due to his better understanding of football. If not limiting plays, at the very least you should limit their ability to call audibles at the line. To say the teams with worse QB's shouldn't be penalized is completely against the whole point of the discussion. Any system will do exactly that. If you're not on board with limiting lesser QB's effectiveness even if they play on a bad team, I'm not sure how we could ever see eye to eye. I will agree with the problem of the camera idea, I don't play in person so I hadn't really considered it. I can see how you don't want to take away the defensive players view of the field. This leads me back to playcalling/audible limitations, removal of icons, extra pre snap information, and more frequent errant passes due to bad mechanics as the best ways to attempt to make a change. I would like to reiterate that each of these can be done in any fashion you wish. It doesn't have to be that every play the guy only has 2 reads. It could be with good performance he works his way up to seeing all the receivers despite his low awarness. He could open up more plays/audibles. He could gain his compsure and quit having mental lapses that cause bad throws off his back foot. He could earn the right to some pre snap information. I just think it is important to keep in mind that we WILL indeed be penalizing the lesser players in some fashion regardless of the team they play on. The stats needs to be reflected by human controlled QB's somehow. To the extent it is done, and how it is done is what the question is. To me there is no question that it needs to be done. Some people seem to reluctant to have lesser players perform worse. No one complains when the slower, less talented running backs don't break as many tackles or run as fast as the better players. We are dealing with the same idea, it's just a mental aspect of the game we're trying to effect. Perhaps a crappy running back on a crappy team shouldn't be crappy because it's not "fair" to the users of that team. The fact is we want a game where the players perform to their ratings. If you want to play a game where all players perform equal, maybe they should make that an option. I for one want Vince young to have a disadvantage other than his lowered accuracy.

Thank you for this explanation and I agree 100000%. I tried to explain this earlier but you described it perfectly.

[JedAustin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

Thank you for this explanation and I agree 100000%. I tried to explain this earlier but you described it perfectly.

No problem. I believe you and I would like to play a similar game lol.

[uiucjpo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

There are a million cool ideas that could be implemented in a single player scenario. With multiplayer slowing down, speeding up or changing the view of the game just doesn't work.

Now that you mention that, I think that disappearing icons (but the ability to still throw to them) have the same disadvantage in that it would be hard for a user controlled defense to identify the receivers. I know that if I'm controlling the saftey, I can pick up the receivers easily due to a big flashing icon over them. I don't want to get burned by a receiver I didn't know was there.