Quite simply will sim play be rewarded in 09

[simgameonly]

I have a simple question specific to but also transcending Madden 09, it is more about sports games in general. Will Madden 09 reward a simulation style player this year?(in my estimation it never has and I wonder if it will ever change)

There is the never ending debate of sim/cheese. One group of people want the most realistic nfl simulation possible, they stay in the pocket, throw the ball away, punt, go for 2 only when a real life team would etc..

The other group are action junkies(mountain dew nation) in my estimation with little patience and usually an improper understanding of the intricacies of the sport they are playing a video representation of. They are part of the American "instant gratification culture/espn highlight" mentality who think there are 10 plus 40 yard passes per Nfl game.

Point being when these two groups clash on the video grid-iron from my observations, it would seem that the action junkie would not stand a chance being that "Madden" is "supposed to be a simulation of an actual NFL game" Unfortunately it is usually the other way around

I just bring this up wondering if this year will be any different, when I read about the dissappearing passing icons from dropping back too far I am encouraged. I would love to hear more about cross field passes being penalized, punishing immobile quarterbacks for straying from the pocket, playing press coverage against premier receivers etc...

To stray a little for example, if I play buddies in say Nba 2k8 who are "mountain dew nation" that disarray, arcade style gets destroyed. Another example would be winning eleven or fifa, their lack of patience is thier death time after time, there constant attacking of the ball leaves oceans of space to penalize them with.

In football however the simulation player seems to be penalized and I just wonder if it will ever change, for example Madden Nation is a laughing stock, for those people and their infantile strategies to be able to compete with someone with any football iq is just a travesty, just wonder if it will ever change

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by simgameonly

I have a simple question specific to but also transcending Madden 09, it is more about sports games in general. Will Madden 09 reward a simulation style player this year?(in my estimation it never has and I wonder if it will ever change) There is the never ending debate of sim/cheese. One group of people want the most realistic nfl simulation possible, they stay in the pocket, throw the ball away, punt, go for 2 only when a real life team would etc.. The other group are action junkies(mountain dew nation) in my estimation with little patience and usually an improper understanding of the intricacies of the sport they are playing a video representation of. They are part of the American "instant gratification culture/espn highlight" mentality who think there are 10 plus 40 yard passes per Nfl game. Point being when these two groups clash on the video grid-iron from my observations, it would seem that the action junkie would not stand a chance being that "Madden" is "supposed to be a simulation of an actual NFL game" Unfortunately it is usually the other way around I just bring this up wondering if this year will be any different, when I read about the dissappearing passing icons from dropping back too far I am encouraged. I would love to hear more about cross field passes being penalized, punishing immobile quarterbacks for straying from the pocket, playing press coverage against premier receivers etc... To stray a little for example, if I play buddies in say Nba 2k8 who are "mountain dew nation" that disarray, arcade style gets destroyed. Another example would be winning eleven or fifa, their lack of patience is thier death time after time, there constant attacking of the ball leaves oceans of space to penalize them with. In football however the simulation player seems to be penalized and I just wonder if it will ever change, for example Madden Nation is a laughing stock, for those people and their infantile strategies to be able to compete with someone with any football iq is just a travesty, just wonder if it will ever change

One could argue the game already does reward sim players more than cheese players. Well I speak for NCAA more than Madden. I just finished playing round 2 of the Gamestop tournament and I can tell you everyone there except one kid played str8 sim and not cheese. The kid who was borderline got eliminated fairly easy. I'm not saying there isn't still cheese because there most definitely is but next-gen football games are already worlds better than last gen in this sense.

[simgameonly]

I am glad you have had a positive experience Odogg and I appreciate your input. Upone reflection, I guess a better way of saying my piece would be will arcade play be progressively more punished.

In Madden for instance I still see the same trend in terms of current and last gen. The excessive dropping back with qb;s, the straying from the pocket with immobile quarterbacks, the excessive blitzing, the lack of game management skills.

For example every year someone talks about their online experience trying to play sim. Same story every time, they try to play sim and have to compensate for cheese to stand a chance. Why is this cheese rewarded to the point that it has to be overcome, how does it continue to remain effective. Sure it can be countered by the sim player, but why does the game allow it to stand a chance in hell of working is what I am getting at. Is it because the larger demographic who purchases the games more arcade than sim.

Why would these people even want Madden and not Nfl Blitz or Tour or whatever it is called, that has always baffled me. If you dont want a sim why buy an advertised sim? It still seems that football to me struggles more than other games to reward/penalize according to adhering to real life strategy.

[gr18]

I've never considered Madden 'sim'.It doesn't seem meant to be.Certainly more arcade style.The play of the o-line vs. d-line has and will determine that.

If you want sim play 2k5.There are updated rosters for the xbox you know.

[simgameonly]

I dont either but it is advertised as one. That is my point, will the game progress to be a more sim based experience, rewarding that style of play and punishing cheese etc..

[gr18]

They try to say they want to go more sim but then say they have to appeal to the casual gamer.This covers both aspects in their marketing.I just don't see it.

[simgameonly]

An example of what I am talking about would be as follows:

At the world class level of futbol club or country that game boils down to episode after episode of individual battles with insanely high levels of technical skill predominantly occuring on the wings.

Even as of 2 years ago, a person who did not understand that a single defender against a world class maestro of on the ball skill could hawk that player excessively in a game like fifa with little, hell really no consequence. Finally with the skill moves very slowly trending in the right direction starting in Fifa 07, then 08, then Euro the ball hawk can be punished for onrushing a C. Ronaldho, or Riberi for example. That sole defender can be beaten and punished for playing with reckless abandon, that is part of the beauty of the game, the individual battle.

Point is the mountain dew nation player is penalized for playing the game in a fashion that does not play true to life, sold defenders dont onrush ball wizards as they will easily be exploited, they generally are more conservative and wait for help or at least more deliberate trying to limit options not just charging full boar

I cant think of any comparable example in Madden where poor strategy is penalized, it just translates poorly for whatever reason, hope it will improve

[Sigma4Life]

I agree 100%. I can't wait for the day when sim play trumps arcade on a regular basis.