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maddenps2 · 07-02-2008, 11:47 PM

Today when I was thinking of ways to make madden more realistic I remembered Ian saying that they had worked on getting the arms working more independent of the body, I came up with an idea.

Madden is motion captured, with motion comes positives and negatives. A positive is that it replicates body movement since it is real body movement. A negative that I want to focus on is that when your probably motion capturing the entire body at once. Since it is done this way the players arms are constrained to the locations during the captures.

In real life a player jumps up, he sees the ball, reacts, and his arms and torso move in anticipation of knocking the ball down or making an interception.

In the same situation, using the motion captured animation, the player jumps up and his arms are stuck in the position they were during the motion capture.

All of have seen replays where the d-back is in the correct position to defend the pass but the constraints of the total body motion capture constrains his arms from making a play on the ball.

So if possible, I think a great solution would be to have intelligent arms independent of the body motion capture animation. Of course you would have to keep in mind the constraints of range, motion, and momentum to keep things realistic. You'd probably have to work in some twisting of the torso in some cases. Only certain arm movements would work with certain body animations.

Players with higher awareness would have their arms in a better position to defend the pass, and players with lower awareness would misplay the ball sometimes.

This same concept could be used for receiving backs. So many times I've thrown the ball to a guy at a catchable angle, *screens especially* but the ball bounces off the players back or head because there is no independent arm/torso movement.

Just an idea, I'm not sure if it's possible but I hope something can be done to make a player be able to react with his arms just like you can in real life.

TDogg09 · 07-03-2008, 01:01 AM

It's a cool idea, but it might end up with some really weird situations. I can foresee bad looking animations if the arm animation wasn't paired right with the body one. Maybe they can just expand on the new engine they have this year to give the arms more independent motion

(on a side note, I didn't explain that nearly as well as it was going in my head. Sorry if it is confusing.)

Sigma4Life · 07-03-2008, 01:06 AM

I believe the Madden/NCAA engine does have the ability to animate the arms & hands independent from the player using inverse kinematics. It's used for animating the players making catches by moving the players hands to the ball. I think what's missing is the ability to rotate the torso. Another issue is the proper animations don't always trigger.

maddenps2 · 07-03-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDogg09


	It's a cool idea, but it might end up with some really weird situations. I can foresee bad looking animations if the arm animation wasn't paired right with the body one. Maybe they can just expand on the new engine they have this year to give the arms more independent motion (on a side note, I didn't explain that nearly as well as it was going in my head. Sorry if it is confusing.)

I know exactly what your saying and the developers would keep this in mind and keep the realistic arm animations limited to fit the situation at hand. You'd have to keep in human bio-mecahanics in mind. It's much better than the alternative of being limited to the full body motion capture in every situation. Because many times you body reacts on the fly to the ball. They could do this in small steps, adding several new catch animations each year if it was difficult.

You can't let a challenge stop you pushing the envelope if you want to achieve more realism.

TDogg09 · 07-03-2008, 02:22 AM

I agree

TCF · 07-03-2008, 02:32 AM

that idea makes a lot of sense.

Russell_SCEA · 07-03-2008, 03:01 AM

If I'm not mistaken I think this is already in the game arms moving independently I mean.

maddenps2 · 07-03-2008, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russell05


	If I'm not mistaken I think this is already in the game arms moving independently I mean.

I read that they have made it possible, but i don't think they have incorporated in the way I have described, yet.

07-02-2008, 11:47 PM	#1
maddenps2 MVP OVR: 12 Join Date: Jul 2004	Intelligent Arms........Say What???? Today when I was thinking of ways to make madden more realistic I remembered Ian saying that they had worked on getting the arms working more independent of the body, I came up with an idea. Madden is motion captured, with motion comes positives and negatives. A positive is that it replicates body movement since it is real body movement. A negative that I want to focus on is that when your probably motion capturing the entire body at once. Since it is done this way the players arms are constrained to the locations during the captures. In real life a player jumps up, he sees the ball, reacts, and his arms and torso move in anticipation of knocking the ball down or making an interception. In the same situation, using the motion captured animation, the player jumps up and his arms are stuck in the position they were during the motion capture. All of have seen replays where the d-back is in the correct position to defend the pass but the constraints of the total body motion capture constrains his arms from making a play on the ball. So if possible, I think a great solution would be to have intelligent arms independent of the body motion capture animation. Of course you would have to keep in mind the constraints of range, motion, and momentum to keep things realistic. You'd probably have to work in some twisting of the torso in some cases. Only certain arm movements would work with certain body animations. Players with higher awareness would have their arms in a better position to defend the pass, and players with lower awareness would misplay the ball sometimes. This same concept could be used for receiving backs. So many times I've thrown the ball to a guy at a catchable angle, screens especially but the ball bounces off the players back or head because there is no independent arm/torso movement. Just an idea, I'm not sure if it's possible but I hope something can be done to make a player be able to react with his arms just like you can in real life.

07-03-2008, 01:01 AM	#2
TDogg09 Pro OVR: 16 Join Date: Jun 2008 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Intelligent Arms........Say What???? It's a cool idea, but it might end up with some really weird situations. I can foresee bad looking animations if the arm animation wasn't paired right with the body one. Maybe they can just expand on the new engine they have this year to give the arms more independent motion (on a side note, I didn't explain that nearly as well as it was going in my head. Sorry if it is confusing.)

07-03-2008, 01:06 AM	#3
Sigma4Life Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas	Re: Intelligent Arms........Say What???? I believe the Madden/NCAA engine does have the ability to animate the arms & hands independent from the player using inverse kinematics. It's used for animating the players making catches by moving the players hands to the ball. I think what's missing is the ability to rotate the torso. Another issue is the proper animations don't always trigger.

07-03-2008, 02:22 AM	#5
TDogg09 Pro OVR: 16 Join Date: Jun 2008 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Intelligent Arms........Say What???? I agree

07-03-2008, 02:32 AM	#6
TCF Rookie OVR: 7 Join Date: Apr 2004 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Intelligent Arms........Say What???? that idea makes a lot of sense.

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07-03-2008, 03:01 AM	#7
Russell_SCEA SCEA Community Manager OVR: 29 Join Date: May 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,161	Re: Intelligent Arms........Say What???? If I'm not mistaken I think this is already in the game arms moving independently I mean.

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