IAN Video Proof of what NEEDS to be changed about the passing game

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by oChaos_Nine

If you get the physics right, then he wouldn't have made that catch even if the user took control. Get the direction changes right, and I mean for ALL 22 players on the field and the problem is solved. Not only do WR's do this when the ball isn't thrown directly to them but DB's that are covering someone else can turn 180 degrees without loosing any speed to get to the ball in the air and swat or INT.

I don't post a lot in this section, but I really do want Madden to be good, and in this case a lesson can be learned from the "other game." In that game, you can switch to a WR in the middle of a route, but when you do, you can immediately tell that that receiver has momentum and that the route is based on real footwork that has set gather-and-cut points built in (as a route should). When you switch, if you're at a point in the route where the receiver is driving upfield, you can't just break it off, cut hard one direction or the other, and make the catch. That's how it should be, imo.

For example, if a receiver is running a 12-yard square in, at 5 yards he's driving hard upfield, likely trying to leverage the outside shoulder just a bit to set up the break. If the QB decides to throw the equivalent of a 7-8 yard square in due to pressure, there's simply no way that this receiver will be able to gather, break, and catch the ball.

That's real football, and I would love to see the kind of momentum and route-based passing that's in the other game implemented and even improved upon by this very dedicated development team.

[NYyankz225]

I don't usually jump into "here's what I think needs to be changed about Madden" because I find that a lot of them are silly/not feasible. But I feel that this issue is worth talking about.

The momentum system is more than satisfactory...for the ball carrier. After completing a pass receivers run accurately (as does the running back on running plays) as far as I'm concerned. But everything else...route running, lineplay, etc... seems to be based on old scripted animations and physics.

Obviously you can't retool the entire game at once and I'll repeat...the improvements to the running game are massive. But this needs to be your focus for the next few years. Getting everything to that "procedural" level of animations that are based on physics (momentum, acceleration, etc) so that these issues won't come up.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by oChaos_Nine

If you get the physics right, then he wouldn't have made that catch even if the user took control. Get the direction changes right, and I mean for ALL 22 players on the field and the problem is solved. Not only do WR's do this when the ball isn't thrown directly to them but DB's that are covering someone else can turn 180 degrees without loosing any speed to get to the ball in the air and swat or INT.

Yep...that's kind of what I'm getting at. Users will always be able to take control and account for the "can't catch because of lack of sight" thing...but more importantly is a system with more realistic momentum for players. And I like Bezo's idea of making this more exaggerated per skill level.

When I get back into the office I think I have a way to make a rough prototype of this. I'll keep you guys posted

[bowdown2shadi]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Yep...that's kind of what I'm getting at. Users will always be able to take control and account for the "can't catch because of lack of sight" thing...but more importantly is a system with more realistic momentum for players. And I like Bezo's idea of making this more exaggerated per skill level. When I get back into the office I think I have a way to make a rough prototype of this. I'll keep you guys posted

Do what you gotta do Ian. Hook us up with a game worthy of $60.

[Ram209]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Yep...that's kind of what I'm getting at. Users will always be able to take control and account for the "can't catch because of lack of sight" thing...but more importantly is a system with more realistic momentum for players. And I like Bezo's idea of making this more exaggerated per skill level. When I get back into the office I think I have a way to make a rough prototype of this. I'll keep you guys posted

Ian wouldn't you be able to motion capture this with that dude? I mean the Rec route running. Then it would be realistic in terms of CPU control because the mo-cap guy would not be able to "Un Human" things. Now if the user does take control of the re before the ball is there then you can add the transition animations that madden lacks and the "other" game did so well.

Also I understand you sometime take a beating on these boards but we all want the same thing............. Madden to play like 2K5 ........... I kid I kid! Seriously all of us just want a more realistic game.

[oChaos_Nine]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Yep...that's kind of what I'm getting at. Users will always be able to take control and account for the "can't catch because of lack of sight" thing...but more importantly is a system with more realistic momentum for players. And I like Bezo's idea of making this more exaggerated per skill level. When I get back into the office I think I have a way to make a rough prototype of this. I'll keep you guys posted

As long as you understand that this game needs realistic momentum and direction changes I'm satisfied. I couldn't tell you how many times I've wanted to throw the controller when I'm running a sweep with Westbrook (97 SPD) and a slower MLB will be blitzing and he can get through the line unblocked, make the cut towards me (90 degrees) and still make the tackle after I've gotten the pitch and I'm already outside the hash marks.

I hate to bring this up but I wasn't much of a 2k fan only because I haven't really played it, but for sh*ts and giggles I d/led the demo for APF2k8 and I was astonished at some of the things they were able to do.

[Sef0r]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Yep...that's kind of what I'm getting at. Users will always be able to take control and account for the "can't catch because of lack of sight" thing...but more importantly is a system with more realistic momentum for players. And I like Bezo's idea of making this more exaggerated per skill level. When I get back into the office I think I have a way to make a rough prototype of this. I'll keep you guys posted

Copy All Pro, playing Defense to some people was difficult because Defenders could not react quickly enough to user input. Defenses are always at a disadvantage, DBs and LBs are always at a disadvantage. Its a 50/50 call on whether they look for Run vs Pass. Then to know where the ball is going? The Tackles for Loss that is so abundant in this game is rediculous because it doesn't happen a lot, there is always at least a 1 yard gain. When you can get a Tackle for loss, its because a lineman was unblocked and read the run perfectly or a blitzer got through.

[ProjectRipCity]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Just to confirm...the WR (Walker) was NOT user controlled? I think it would be easy enough to make it so the receiver can't come back and react to this terrible pass, but what about user-controlled guys? You'd have a very noticeable advantage over the CPU right? And we can't just turn off user-controlled catching (though I know some folks have suggested that)...sorry...it's still a video game and that control has been there for 20 years. Maybe we could force the receiver to play some sort of direction change transition? Or a delay on user control (i.e. you can switch to him but you can't make any directional changes for a full second or something)? Any other thoughts from you guys?

Look it's the lead designer of Madden...AFTER HIM!