Question: What types of hot routes can QBs make at the LOS in real life?

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by UnbatedCactus

I always recall hearing John Madden talk about the huddle calls for Eli and Peyton Manning -- normally they call 4 plays in the huddle (2 pass, 2 run) and depending on the defense they audible at the line. From my experience, most audibles consist of sitting in the zone or a streak. If man converage on defense can be improved upon -- the amount of audibles ont he offensive side isn't that crazy. The reason they are so powerful is man coverage is very weak -- most defenders are 2-3 steps behind the receiver. I'm sure some sort of intelligent hot-route could be implemented -- but the coverages on defense would have to be modified as well.

Man coverage is not weak, and 3 steps is HUGE in the NFL. Watch Sundays games. The Eagles are almost excusively in a zero man or cov 1 scheme on passing downs, the Ravens play cov 1 5 man pressure defenses with Ed Reed free and the Steelers play single-high robber with Polomalu as the robber maybe 1/3 of the time with 3 under-3 deep zone blitzes with Polamalu either involved in the blitz or as a middle robber a large percentage of the time. The Patriots and the Giants almost are always in some sort of man coverage on the edges, or the Giants were last year, I saw them playing quarter-quarter-half-man a bunch this year. The Redskins it seems are always 5 rushers-cov 1 with Landry high. Man coverage certainly isn't weak, and is probably the most oft-used coverage in the pro football, even though the pundits would tell you its Tampa 2, which really isn't cover 2 at all.

As for the Mannings, much is overblown about this, as most teams utilize a check-with-me system on a lot of downs. Peyton is given more freedom, and more checks than most, and with good reason. He really has a knack for noticing sublte nuances that tip of a defense's plan before the snap. Its hard to even pick this stuff up watching film, much less watching the too close tv pictures. But don't kid yourself, all NFL teams use cwm in the run game, with pass protections, and most qb's have the ok to check things in the pass game as well.

And don't forget all those teams who run some of the run and shoot principles, the whole basis of that system is to read defenses on the fly and adjust routes to combat those coverages. For what your calling a "hot route," this is an example of one happening post-snap.

At the risk of getting long-winded, I thought maybe I'd clear up the term hot-route anyway, its one of my pet peaves. In coaching and playing circles, a hot route is really an underneath type route that the qb can get the ball to quickly if he's pressured early. These routes are built into the pass concept. A "sight adjustment" occurs when a rec. breaks off his route to attack an area that's left uncovered by a blitzer who will not be blocked. Most pro-style passing attacks have a built in hot route to one side of the concept (the front side) and a possible sight adjustment to the backside.

[Chessboxer1]

you're right that was long winded....juuuuuuuuust kidding that was a perfect description of how complicated things are in the nfl when it comes to the passing game. The question is, how can this be adapted to Madden. Would a player call 4 plays at once? 2 maybe? I personally like the system with formation specific audibles, but maybe that's too much information for next gen?

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

In your opinion then, is the hot route system that we currently have realistic, or does it need to be changed in some way? Should there be some sort of way to make the offense's ability to adjust plays at the LOS dependent on attributes of the QB and receivers?

To the original poster on it being realistic on the amount of hot routes.

The answer is yes. You can audible a ton of hot routes. There are signs and cetain ways you can say a set of numbers that can be either translated to 1 receiver or all the receivers.

I have a system just like this on my flag football team, so imagine the NFL.

Now are you having trouble with players hot routing and burning your defense?

Im not sure if this is the case but if it is try this out.

Do the following. Change your defensive look. In Madden you can have your guys line up like its a Man and meanwhile they are in a zone, and vice versa. You can alos lokc up your defenders that they dont move, and that can confuse them also. Anything you can do to make him have to read your defense after the snap the better for you.

Being on offense you can change a bunch before hiking the ball, but on defense you can do alot to disquise and confuse the offense. This is where the game becomes a game of chess. Dont be afraid to make changes on defense either when the offense is doing the same.

I had 1 boy who was a master at this. He always moved his defense around you had no choice but to see what coverage he was in till the ball is snapped. Now im a master at it lol.

Now if that doesnt refer to you, sorry about that. I was just putting it up Just in case.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chessboxer1

you're right that was long winded....juuuuuuuuust kidding that was a perfect description of how complicated things are in the nfl when it comes to the passing game. The question is, how can this be adapted to Madden. Would a player call 4 plays at once? 2 maybe? I personally like the system with formation specific audibles, but maybe that's too much information for next gen?

I think the current system works just fine. The formation audibles give you a quick, a dropback, a run than can be flipped, and a play-action. That is a cwm system in itself. The "hot routes" are fine too. You have 8 individual routes to choose from and can make the rec go to the sticks. That's pretty realistic, esp when you think of it as just calling a separate play. I think the main thing with the routes is that 15-20 yard routes are completely missing, I wish 18 yd comebacks, 20 yard crossing routes would be included in the base playbooks.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

Now are you having trouble with players hot routing and burning your defense? Im not sure if this is the case but if it is try this out. Do the following. Change your defensive look. In Madden you can have your guys line up like its a Man and meanwhile they are in a zone, and vice versa. You can alos lokc up your defenders that they dont move, and that can confuse them also. Anything you can do to make him have to read your defense after the snap the better for you. Being on offense you can change a bunch before hiking the ball, but on defense you can do alot to disquise and confuse the offense. This is where the game becomes a game of chess. Dont be afraid to make changes on defense either when the offense is doing the same. I had 1 boy who was a master at this. He always moved his defense around you had no choice but to see what coverage he was in till the ball is snapped. Now im a master at it lol. Now if that doesnt refer to you, sorry about that. I was just putting it up Just in case.

Well, I was more referring to me being on offense -- particularly against the computer, but I'm interested to know how you disguise coverage like this.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

Man coverage is not weak, and 3 steps is HUGE in the NFL. Watch Sundays games. The Eagles are almost excusively in a zero man or cov 1 scheme on passing downs, the Ravens play cov 1 5 man pressure defenses with Ed Reed free and the Steelers play single-high robber with Polomalu as the robber maybe 1/3 of the time with 3 under-3 deep zone blitzes with Polamalu either involved in the blitz or as a middle robber a large percentage of the time. The Patriots and the Giants almost are always in some sort of man coverage on the edges, or the Giants were last year, I saw them playing quarter-quarter-half-man a bunch this year. The Redskins it seems are always 5 rushers-cov 1 with Landry high. Man coverage certainly isn't weak, and is probably the most oft-used coverage in the pro football, even though the pundits would tell you its Tampa 2, which really isn't cover 2 at all.

I am confused. I thought the poster that you quoted was saying that Man coverage is under-effective on the game -- which I tend to agree with. Are you saying that it works in the game, or are you agreeing with him that it needs to be adjusted?

[Sausage]

I think having crowd noise should effect the number of hot routes and with "WRs" with low awareness, it should lead to incorrect routes. Also I believe that more pass plays should have WR option routes.

May sound crazy, but when playing in loud stadium there should be a "hand single" mini game to hot route and call audibles.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

I am confused. I thought the poster that you quoted was saying that Man coverage is under-effective on the game -- which I tend to agree with. Are you saying that it works in the game, or are you agreeing with him that it needs to be adjusted?

Since you were talking about reality, I thought he was too. Sorry if I messed it up. I agree that man coverage in the game is way too ineffective.