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IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive AI?

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Old 04-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #1
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IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive AI?

Here's the article for proof.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/11/us...-champion.html

That computer, IBM's "Deep Blue" beat the world chess champion Gary Kasparov back in 1997. That was 12 years ago.




Deep Blue was a supercomputer of it's time, but developed a measly 11.38 GFLOPS. Compared to the PS3 and XBox 360 this is not impressive.

If that computer could beat the world champ of chess 12 years ago with far less computing power, then-

1) Why does the CPU in Madden still call all it's plays at random?


These consoles are math machines, but they can't do statistical play-calling? The can't defend your plays based on your tendencies?

2) Why can it not adapt and plan ahead in it's strategy.


The CPU should roll a safety over Randy Moss once he's over 100 yards. And keep him there for the duration. No more man coverage for Randy. The CPU should be stacking the box against Adrian Peterson, not backing out into cloud coverage on 1st down.

3) Why can't the CPU even use plays for their intended purpose.


Run screens and draws to beat blitzes, square ins and hitches to beat over coverage.

4) Why don't the playbooks contain complete plays?

There are no blocking assignments in this game. None. You cannot tell any single player to block any other single player. That's just wrong. Running plays in particular are incomplete. Because there is no goal to the play the CPU's running backs never know what hole to hit. Thus they always run into the backs of linemen, get stuck and tackled. It also makes it difficult for the human player to exploit weaknesses in a defense, whether it be a poor alignment or a weak defender.

ADAPTIVE AI IS A GAME CHANGER.

It will make Madden the game it was meant to be, a strategic challenge. It will tax the mind as well as the reflexes and make the game finally complete. Adaptive AI is a must have item for any game to call itself "Next Gen".
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:43 PM   #2
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Here's the article for proof.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/11/us...-champion.html

That computer, IBM's "Deep Blue" beat the world chess champion Gary Kasparov back in 1997. That was 12 years ago.




Deep Blue was a supercomputer of it's time, but developed a measly 11.38 GFLOPS. Compared to the PS3 and XBox 360 this is not impressive.

If that computer could beat the world champ of chess 12 years ago with far less computing power, then-

1) Why does the CPU in Madden still call all it's plays at random?


These consoles are math machines, but they can't do statistical play-calling? The can't defend your plays based on your tendencies?

2) Why can it not adapt and plan ahead in it's strategy.


The CPU should roll a safety over Randy Moss once he's over 100 yards. And keep him there for the duration. No more man coverage for Randy. The CPU should be stacking the box against Adrian Peterson, not backing out into cloud coverage on 1st down.

3) Why can't the CPU even use plays for their intended purpose.


Run screens and draws to beat blitzes, square ins and hitches to beat over coverage.

4) Why don't the playbooks contain complete plays?

There are no blocking assignments in this game. None. You cannot tell any single player to block any other single player. That's just wrong. Running plays in particular are incomplete. Because there is no goal to the play the CPU's running backs never know what hole to hit. Thus they always run into the backs of linemen, get stuck and tackled. It also makes it difficult for the human player to exploit weaknesses in a defense, whether it be a poor alignment or a weak defender.

ADAPTIVE AI IS A GAME CHANGER.

It will make Madden the game it was meant to be, a strategic challenge. It will tax the mind as well as the reflexes and make the game finally complete. Adaptive AI is a must have item for any game to call itself "Next Gen".

I wrote a paper all on chess algorithms.

Do you realize how complicated it really is.... you have to write an algorithm that analyzes a tree that can hold every move you or your opponent can make then it calculates a tree that can go as deep as 13-20 depth (depending on the computer) It analyzes over 1million moves and it destroys your cpu speed before it generates a move in chess. And you only have 32 pieces in chess imagine plays and situation algorithms. It has nothing to do with cpu speed it has all to do with the algorithm they create to make the moves. It is all math, so how do you calculate the power of a play to create an algorithm that will make a play for the cpu?

Man I really feel for these game developers. I know I am not going into that kind of development unless it is the only kind left, because people are very unreasonable.

Here is a link if you don't believe me for the chess part: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_chess

I would like to see your ideas.
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:47 PM   #3
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Um...Deep Blue cost several million dollars...I saw people losing their minds when the PS3 released as a $600 console / movie player! Even if the number of flops the PS3 does makes Deep Blue "not impressive", you have to account for the fact that it was designed and built SPECIFICALLY to play chess...the consoles on the other hand are NOT!

I don't believe there is much of a mass market for $1,000,000+ consoles at the moment...
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:54 PM   #4
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Yea we need a console made specifically for a football game.
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #5
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Seriously? Deep Blue?

I hate to break it too you mean... someone brought this up over on the Total War boards as well... but a "Deep Blue" for Madden would be near impossible, and the PS3 couldn't run it.

Chess has a limited number of possibilities. Each piece can only move a certain way. There are only so many positions on the board. It's turn-based. Facing is irrelevant. Everything's organized into neat little squares. None of this applies to Madden. Doing this for a football video game (or, as the case may be, a real time tactical war sim) is damn close to impossible.

And thus, it's not a fair comparison.
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #6
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Have they even confirmed that there was no Adaptive AI in 10? I see Shotty mentioned this in another thread as if there's already been confirmation?
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:58 PM   #7
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiles36
Have they even confirmed that there was no Adaptive AI in 10? I see Shotty mentioned this in another thread as if there's already been confirmation?
No, they haven't. There hasn't been much talk of AI so far.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:01 PM   #8
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by adembroski
No, they haven't. There hasn't been much talk of AI so far.
I didn't think so. So Shotty, why are you jumping off on the deep end? I share your sentiments for Adaptive AI (I put it in all my wishlists) but why are you jumping out the window with no confirmation?
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