OT's vs DE's/OLB's and the Pocket

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I get the impression, though, through reading this that people expect anyone who rolls out of the pocket to have a virtual auto sack "every time" or something. honestly, if the play breaks down ad the QB isn't ready to throw after his 3-5 step drop and the D is only sending 3 or 4 man rush then the QB may have to make an adjustment in the pocket and even move out of it before it colapses on him. Players like Manning are bad at moving outside of the pocket, but Montana, Elway, and even today Brady were/are able to make those few moves and posibly even scramble up field for a gain and do a QB slide. I agree with the problem of players just rolling out to the sideline unopposed by the DEs and free to make a deep throw or what ever, but the idea that leaving the pocket at all is gong to cost you big "everytime" is a bit silly to me. Watching Big Ben and others play makes me want balance in this area. There shouldn't be free reign, but it shouldn't be a death sentece either.

Its not the act of leaving the pocket that I find objectionable, its the method it is done and the fact that it has been really risk-free for the offense for years and years and across generations of Madden games. It should be 100% automatic that a bad outcome is coming if your VERY FIRST move after the snap is to turn the QB's body away from the LOS and begin sprinting straight back. There should be no way in hell that this is a viable or even desired way to play the game.

To be perfectly clear, if I boot up Madden NFL 10 and see my opponent take a snap from center and immediately begin sprinting backwards, I should be able to set the controller down, get a drink and watch as something bad - a turnover, a sack, an injury or a penalty - happens to my opponent. This should continue until he either quits the game and goes to do something else or starts playing QB like an actual QB instead of someone fleeing the scene of a breaking and entering gone bad!

IF a player allows the QB to auto-drop the appropriate number of steps (or manually drops those same steps for the control freaks who feel it is too much imposition to have the drop be by default), and THEN escapes the pocket, I have no problem at all with the QB making a play under certain conditions:

1) that the play is made to a WR breaking off their route, based on awareness ratings and working BACK TO THE QB in 99% of the cases....NOT breaking off their routes to a fly route and having a scrambling QB hoisting a perfectly thrown 40-50 yard bomb to them...

2) that the QB's decision to run or pass once outside the pocket is not given more than 1 to 1.5 seconds before really bad consequences take over at a higher percentage (the longer the QB is exposed, the more prevalent the bad outcomes should be) - ie. sacks, fumbles, penalties, injuries. As it is now, and has been seemingly forever, once the QB is outside the pocket; too often they have enough time for a casual stroll to the sideline while sending Receivers deep!

Escaping the pocket should feel like a helter-skelter, dangerous position and in Madden and NCAA over the years its actually been the exact opposite...on many versions of the game, escaping the pocket area or ignoring it entirely was the SAFEST thing to do!

Controlling the outcomes of this (namely the idiotic idea that a QB could EVER sprint straight back and THEN roll out beyond the pass rush) is the easiest way that EA could discourage the use of this "tactic" until such time that the physics and animations are brought up to speed and can realistically stop it by programmed events. The fact that this exact sentiment has been being put forth by myself and others for years speaks to the seriousness the idea was given in the past. By every indication this year they are trying to address it, but it certainly sounds like Rookie and Pro difficulty settings will remain broken (as the IGN reviewer commenting on not getting any pressure , etc was played on Pro). As long as All-Pro and All-Madden are NOT broken (LB's comments make me comfortable with All-Madden and leary of All-Pro...I get the feeling that Ian and company will make the decision to allow All-Pro and default online games by extension to be closer to the Rookie/Pro tuning than the AM tuning) - or at least one of them is not broken, then I will be a happy man!

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I get the impression, though, through reading this that people expect anyone who rolls out of the pocket to have a virtual auto sack "every time" or something. honestly, if the play breaks down ad the QB isn't ready to throw after his 3-5 step drop and the D is only sending 3 or 4 man rush then the QB may have to make an adjustment in the pocket and even move out of it before it colapses on him. Players like Manning are bad at moving outside of the pocket, but Montana, Elway, and even today Brady were/are able to make those few moves and posibly even scramble up field for a gain and do a QB slide. I agree with the problem of players just rolling out to the sideline unopposed by the DEs and free to make a deep throw or what ever, but the idea that leaving the pocket at all is gong to cost you big "everytime" is a bit silly to me. Watching Big Ben and others play makes me want balance in this area. There shouldn't be free reign, but it shouldn't be a death sentece either.

Nahhh it's not about auto sack, it's about making sure the QB is pressured and is made thrown a bad pass. I don't care about getting a sack all the time, but just make pressuring matter more. Secondly, everyone is not Big Ben. That's where I think the throwing on the run rating comes in. There are going to be QB's who can get out and throw on the run and find some success doing so, but not for everybody. But even Ben leaves the pocket through obstacles, not freely.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

LB, does each passing play have a specified drop for the QB (3, 5, or 7), and does the drop "make sense" to the given WR routes?

They are not labeled this way, but the FL drive plays you will know are 3 step. Quick slants are 3 steps. It's just sorta something you have to know.

[Sven Draconian]

There are a few things wrong with the 4-3 pass rush.

1) Alignment is still off. The splits in the game are still too tight, so there isn't enough space created. DL are on too much of the body when they start their rush.

2) Strong ends in a 4-3 should be tilted (when playing in a 9-tech). This will create the natural "arch" that we want. Likewise, they should be wider so they don't engage as quickly.

3) Not enough acceleration. DL guys hsould accelerate faster than they sprint in reality. These guys need to burst off the ball and slow down as the play progresses. The first 5 steps should be the fastest.

[netking23]

Moostache

Your post should be put in a frame on a wall somewhere at EA. I agree with you totally. I believe leaving the pocket should be a high risk tactic almost everytime but in past madden its only been high reward.

[icomb1ne]

I'm just hoping to get some double teams on the NT so that the 3-4 might work a little better. Double teams have only shown up in the running game, but they need to be on passing plays as well. Hopefully they last longer as well and just occur at the right places. This is the only thing that Ian hasn't said anything about yet so I hope that means that they are still working on it. But the fact that time is running out kind of worries me

In regards to the DEs not being fast enough and the pocket not forming correctly, Ian has stated that he is fully aware of it so I have full confidence that it will be adjusted accordingly especially since LBzrule was one of the attendees.

[icomb1ne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Strongwarrior22

in Ian we trust!!!

Did you just post that in 3 different threads?

[Strongwarrior22]

yea is that wrong?I say we all start saying in Ian we trust!!! And maybe he will keeping pushing the guys to delivering the best.