Idea for better pass rush...

[salbowski]

Currently in Madden 10, as far as i know, the result of an offensive lineman (Jared Allen) v D lineman (Orlando Pace) interaction can be one of 3 options.

Option 1:

Pace wins and Pancakes (or any animation that puts the Dlineman on his ***) Allen.

25% chance
(result of formula is greater than 0.75)

Option 2:

A tie, and so the interaction starts again.

50% chance
(result of formula is greater than 0.25 but less than 0.75)

Option 3:

Allen wins, gets passed Pace as has a free run at the QB

25% chance.
(result of formula is less than 0.25).
*****

Now my issue with this is that result 2 isn't a tie because this is allowing the QB more time in the pocket and so in essence the Olineman wins 75% of the time which is why we see so little pressure on the QB.

----------

NEW IDEA

Rather than having 3 possible results, there should be 4.

Option 1: same as option 1 above.

Pace wins and Pancakes (or any animation that puts the Dlineman on his ***) Allen.

25% chance
(result of formula is greater than 0.75)

Option 2: same as option 2 above but different %.

A tie, and so the interaction starts again.

25% chance
(result of formula is greater than 0.50 but less than 0.75)

Option 3: New.

A tie but the Allen pushes the Pace back towards the QB. This is the equivalent of option 2 but weighted in favour of the Dlineman. Allen doesn't have a free run at the QB but the pocket is shrinking, the vibrating is getting stronger.

25% chance
(result of formula is greater than 0.25 but less than 0.50)


Option 4: same as option 3 above.

Allen wins, gets passed Pace and has a free run at the QB

25% chance.
(result of formula is less than 0.25).
*******

Now obviously this is a very basic way of explaining it and im sure the % and numbers aren't the same as the devs use but this gives the Defensive lineman as much chance as the Offensive lineman.

It will also separate the average players from the good players...

The good players might frequently get to result 3 and sometimes 4.

Whereas average players will only rarely get to result 4, sometimes 3, often 2, and more so 1 than the good Dlineman.

-The reverse can be said for Offensive lineman.

Essentually the Olineman now have 50% chance as do the Dlineman

I hope this makes sense.

[Golden28]

Excellent.

I know Ian has already taken notice of yours, LBz and Mooses comments regarding the pass rush.

I really like this idea as we really need to see the pocket deliberately crashing in on the QB. This would be a very good way of implementing that ideal.

DT's also need to have this ability to push toward the QB rather than simply being stood up.

As you rightly say, it seems at the moment it is either DE beats OT to get a free run, OT beats DE and flattens him or neither of them move as they battle it out.

[Broncos86]

I'm curious to see how momentum affects the pass rush, if at all.

[salbowski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Golden28

Excellent. I know Ian has already taken notice of yours, LBz and Mooses comments regarding the pass rush. I really like this idea as we really need to see the pocket deliberately crashing in on the QB. This would be a very good way of implementing that ideal. DT's also need to have this ability to push toward the QB rather than simply being stood up. As you rightly say, it seems at the moment it is either DE beats OT to get a free run, OT beats DE and flattens him or neither of them move as they battle it out.

Yes this part (bold but specifically red font) is my issue. Whilst they are battling it out, the QB is getting more and more time in the pocket which is as good as a win for the Oline.

They need to implement an equivalent for the Dline... thus pushing the Oline into the QB.

[Broncos86]

I would disagree that they don't move at all, isn't this the very point of PRO-TAK?

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by salbowski

Yes this part (bold but specifically red font) is my issue. Whilst they are battling it out, the QB is getting more and more time in the pocket which is as good as a win for the Oline. They need to implement an equivalent for the Dline... thus pushing the Oline into the QB.

Yep, the way in which the "wins" for the Dline play out are totally lacking in terms of variety and/or frequency of the animation sequences.

The are no speed edge rushes when the D End is barely touched and the QB has no chance. The also are no bull rushes with a quick discard of the Olineman forcing the QB to throw too early or throw it away.

The seem to have gotten rid of the Dlinemen instantaneously pancaking the Olineman to the ground animations, and that's a good thing, but they don't seem to have replace them with a more realistic equivalent.

[Golden28]

Quote: Originally Posted by salbowski

They need to implement an equivalent for the Dline... thus pushing the Oline into the QB.

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

They seem to have gotten rid of the Dlinemen instantaneously pancaking the Olineman to the ground animations, and that's a good thing, but they don't seem to have replace them with a more realistic equivalent.

+1

[salbowski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

I would disagree that they don't move at all, isn't this the very point of PRO-TAK?

He doesn't mean move literally... he means they don't move to the next level of protak- be that the olineman winning with a pancake or the dlineman winning with a move.