Did the M10 Crew set the bar too high for M11?

[cam780]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mofficial

But the fact of the matter remains that you are not supposed to cater to the casual gamer first. The casual gamer won't know the difference. Which is one of the reasons why madden has sucked these last 4-5 years. You are supposed to start with your core fanbase: the maddennites. And by continuing to appease them, they will run out and tell their friends, they will nag their friends to play, etc etc until the "casual" gamer gets hooked and starts getting into it and becomes a maddennite themselves. EA is gonna sell millions of copies regardless of what they do because the casual gamer wont know any better any way! The ethics behind business though, is to not provide whack s*** just for a quick buck.

I disagree with this. The casual fan base is much larger and much easier to please so you start with them get the big numbers on your side and then work your way inward to the hardcore fanbase. That's not pleasing to us here but it is a sound business plan.

[Mofficial]

Quote: Originally Posted by that's_what_she_said

In your opinion have they made leaps and bounds of postive improvements to this year's Madden versus the previous next gen Madden's? If so, isn't that a pretty big step in the right direction? I would think so and I haven't played the demo.

Yes i think they have. I think they have covered tremendous ground and have made madden a great game this year. And if you saw my first post in this thread I think I make it clear that I think they have made many steps in the right direction and if they continue they will finally put all the 2k5 talk to an end (or it should at least but you know 2kannites...).

And I have both demos and I am lovin' 'em.

[Mofficial]

Quote: Originally Posted by cam780

I disagree with this. The casual fan base is much larger and much easier to please so you start with them get the big numbers on your side and then work your way inward to the hardcore fanbase. That's not pleasing to us here but it is a sound business plan.

My point exactly so you might as well make a good game that hardcore players approve of instead of making bs than only casual gamers will approve of because they don't know any better.

[trufootball]

This is a joke! Ea setting the bar too high? It's about time we get a decent damn football sim. How many years into next gen? We deserve this a gamers, fans, and customers. Actually we deseved this 3 years ago. Ea is just now catching up!

[GiantBlue76]

The problem I have with the this is that the bar is set by what's been created in the past. That's how all products are judged. Much has been made about comparisons to 2k5, which madden has still yet to conquer, but what about previous Madden games? Madden still doesn't seem to compete with itself!!! Previous versions were way better on old gen machines. WTF is that? How is it that we get field degradation last year, and this year it is not there? Anyway, this is just a small example. The main problem though is I see people on these forums screaming for things like towels, cleats, player progression, owner mode, trading draft picks, etc etc. While I understand the demand for these items, it seems that many people forget what the core of Madden is supposed to be. A simulation of NFL football ON THE FIELD! That's where it all starts, the core of the game is actually playing football. This is not a sports RPG. Ultimately, if the football gameplay is not good, the game will NEVER be good. I don't care how great the franchise mode is, or superstar, or whatever other mode floats your boat. The gameplay, once again, is broken. Let's make a shortened list shall we? Keep in mind - everything I put on this list that is missing or broken either worked or was in 2k's games or in previous maddens. I won't say which was which This list is NOT meant to say "Madden Sucks!" or anything like that. This is a list to show why people like myself are a bit angry at EA's efforts. I don't question the dev team's effort, but the quality is lacking.

1. Blocking AI - still broken
2. Pass Rush - Broken in the demo (will see on the retail)
3. Instant replays cut off and end too early
4. Challenge system does not work at all
5. Presentation very incomplete (better than nothing)
6. Field degradation and progressive lighting - Removed
7. Real time injuries - don't exist
8. Can't draw someone offsides and get a free play if you snap it
9. Penalties - Illegal man downfield, running out of bounds and coming back in, illegal contact - Don't even exist in the game
10. Animations - I happen to think they are pretty good (Over the shoulder catch happens WAY too often)
11. Defensive zone coverage AI is broken
12. Realistic pocket - Nope - Still a wall and no realistic push upfield from the defensive ends
13. Where are the true sideline animations and receivers dragging their feet? (Not sure)
14. No sliders for online games (why????)
15. Commentary is beyond awful with Hammond.
16. Route based passing - not in the game

So now nearly 5 years into the "next gen" we still have the same issues we had 4 years ago. NFL football is so far behind other sports genres it's disgusting, and it's by far the king of sports games. It's not acceptable, and it's not OK to just say, "hey, you can't please everyone."

Madden 10 is going to be a "good" game. I'm tired of that though. I want a "great" game. EA has had their chance. It's time for someone else to step in now and deliver the on field football experience that we all really want. 2k did it on the field with APF, but it lacks the other modes that many of you want (and rightly so).

So no, the bar is not too high. In fact, the bar has been set too low in my opinion. We get something that is an improvement over a pile of **** and we are ready to gush all over it.

[Mofficial]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

The problem I have with the this is that the bar is set by what's been created in the past. That's how all products are judged. Much has been made about comparisons to 2k5, which madden has still yet to conquer, but what about previous Madden games? Madden still doesn't seem to compete with itself!!! Previous versions were way better on old gen machines. WTF is that? How is it that we get field degradation last year, and this year it is not there? Anyway, this is just a small example. The main problem though is I see people on these forums screaming for things like towels, cleats, player progression, owner mode, trading draft picks, etc etc. While I understand the demand for these items, it seems that many people forget what the core of Madden is supposed to be. A simulation of NFL football ON THE FIELD! That's where it all starts, the core of the game is actually playing football. This is not a sports RPG. Ultimately, if the football gameplay is not good, the game will NEVER be good. I don't care how great the franchise mode is, or superstar, or whatever other mode floats your boat. The gameplay, once again, is broken. Let's make a shortened list shall we? Keep in mind - everything I put on this list that is missing or broken either worked or was in 2k's games or in previous maddens. I won't say which was which This list is NOT meant to say "Madden Sucks!" or anything like that. This is a list to show why people like myself are a bit angry at EA's efforts. I don't question the dev team's effort, but the quality is lacking. Blocking AI - still broken Pass Rush - Broken in the demo (will see on the retail) Instant replays cut off and end too early Challenge system does not work at all Presentation very incomplete (better than nothing) Field degradation and progressive lighting - Removed Real time injuries - don't exist Can't draw someone offsides and get a free play if you snap it Penalties - Illegal man downfield, running out of bounds and coming back in, illegal contact - Don't even exist in the game Animations - I happen to think they are pretty good (Over the shoulder catch happens WAY too often) Defensive zone coverage AI is broken Realistic pocket - Nope - Still a wall and no realistic push upfield from the defensive ends Where are the true sideline animations and receivers dragging their feet? (Not sure) No sliders for online games (why????) Commentary is beyond awful with Hammond. Route based passing - not in the game So now nearly 5 years into the "next gen" we still have the same issues we had 4 years ago. NFL football is so far behind other sports genres it's disgusting, and it's by far the king of sports games. It's not acceptable, and it's not OK to just say, "hey, you can't please everyone." Madden 10 is going to be a "good" game. I'm tired of that though. I want a "great" game. EA has had their chance. It's time for someone else to step in now and deliver the on field football experience that we all really want. 2k did it on the field with APF, but it lacks the other modes that many of you want (and rightly so). So no, the bar is not too high. In fact, the bar has been set too low in my opinion. We get something that is an improvement over a pile of **** and we are ready to gush all over it.

I don't about others but running the ball isn't that difficult to me. People complain day and night about running but it isn't that hard to me. I do think that blocking needs to be better though.

Pass rush broken?? That's been my favorite part about playing both demos. In the DAL/NY all i do on defense is play as tuck and i get sacks, hits, rb stops, etc and in the exclusive demo, playing with Smith, harrison, farrior on Pitt and dockett and even dansby on the Cards is fun, challenging and I still get pressure. it could be a little better as the cpu throws it right before i can get there but i think that's more on the QB than the pass rush itself.

Zone AI... meh, i can't really tell if it's great or not because i don't REALLY know what zone is supposed to be like in a football game.... but pass defense is a hell of a lot better this year, man or zone.

Have you had a lineman go downfield the ref not call it? have you had a receiver go out of bounds and come back in without the ref calling it?

Sliders for OF... ok, replays.... ok. And do you mean time-based patterns? I don't understand how you can have a pattern without it based on a route.
But these aren't really gamebreakers IMO. I mean field degradation and progressive lighting don't really have anything to do with how the game plays. Just what it looks like. Many of these are things i could at least overlook. But I guess that's the difference between u and I. However you do have to account for the fact that EA had to fix all of the problems the devs put into that godawful madden 09. Sooo... going from a terrible game to a good one is great if you ask me.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mofficial

I don't about others but running the ball isn't that difficult to me. People complain day and night about running but it isn't that hard to me. I do think that blocking needs to be better though.

Running itself isn't difficult, but the blocking AI is a mess. Lead blockers turn around and block players behind you or off to the side that are not involved in the play.

Quote:

Pass rush broken?? That's been my favorite part about playing both demos. In the DAL/NY all i do on defense is play as tuck and i get sacks, hits, rb stops, etc and in the exclusive demo, playing with Smith, harrison, farrior on Pitt and dockett and even dansby on the Cards is fun, challenging and I still get pressure. it could be a little better as the cpu throws it right before i can get there but i think that's more on the QB than the pass rush itself.

Yeah, that's because you are controlling the lineman or linebacker. Try getting a pass rush if you are not controlling the rusher?

Quote:

Zone AI... meh, i can't really tell if it's great or not because i don't REALLY know what zone is supposed to be like in a football game.... but pass defense is a hell of a lot better this year, man or zone.

If you don't understand zone coverage then how do you know when you want to use it? Defenders don't ever collapse on players who enter their zones in this game. They sit there.

Quote:

Have you had a lineman go downfield the ref not call it? have you had a receiver go out of bounds and come back in without the ref calling it?

Yes, the penalty is not in the game. Try calling a screen and holding onto the ball too long.

Quote:

Sliders for OF... ok, replays.... ok. And do you mean time-based patterns? I don't understand how you can have a pattern without it based on a route.

Route based passing. That means that I throw the ball based on the route, not where the receiver IS. If I have a guy running a post corner, I should be able to throw the ball well before he cuts to the corner while he is still making his move to the inside, and have the ball be thrown to the corner where he should be going.

Quote:

But these aren't really gamebreakers IMO. I mean field degradation and progressive lighting don't really have anything to do with how the game plays.

That was just an example how something was removed that was in previous games.

[Degree]

I think theyll have plenty to fix next year