Ratings and The Easter Bunny

[thdudeabides]

Quote: Originally Posted by sois

Wait, I thought you understood the concept of ratings floors. That should explain this. If every OL's worst possible case is 6'3" 300 lbs, 70 strength, 60 pass block, 60 run block.... etc., then it is still apparant why Dumervil will perform greater than White. The problem is the ratings floor. There shouldn't be one. If someone is dumb enough to trot out a 5'6" 160 lb OT, he should get trounced by Dumervil AND White. He shouldn't hold his own against anyone, which is what we see. That is the problem, nothing else. Remove the floors. Let the ratings do their thing. Otherwise they're meaningless.

Why concede there is a ratings floor? Unless I missed it, the idea of a ratings floor is speculation, has a developer even confirmed there is a ratings floor?

[arichzona]

Ehh....... I dont know, confirmed or not I am not sure that any statement by a dev really holds water. To this point it appears that the public has confirmed more than the devs have.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dmacho

They don't, try editing your secondary to WRs and see if you see a difference. Elite players(other than QBs and mabye HBs) don't exist in this game.

Again, I'm not talking about players out of position. You say that ratings do not matter. Then how come a 75 rated OT gets dominated by a 90 rated DE, but can stonewall a DE rated 75?

Forget for a minute about moving a punter to tackle, a receiver to defensive back or whatever. I'm talking about players who are playing their correct position. If ratings do not matter, then what is it that happens that allows for varying outcomes in regards to varying overall ratings?

[Dmacho]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

Again, I'm not talking about players out of position. You say that ratings do not matter. Then how come a 75 rated OT gets dominated by a 90 rated DE, but can stonewall a DE rated 75? Forget for a minute about moving a punter to tackle, a receiver to defensive back or whatever. I'm talking about players who are playing their correct position. If ratings do not matter, then what is it that happens that allows for varying outcomes in regards to varying overall ratings?

If that DE that is rated 75 is the LDE , he can reak havoc regardless of the rating of the OT in front of him( I'm not the only one that's pointed this out). And 75 DEs don't always get dominated by 90 or above OTs. In the francise that I was running, I had the most success with Parker because he was the RDE. He was injured for a few games and whoever replaced him was just as effective. Cole, the teams best pass rusher(above 90 overall) never broke 10 sacks in any of the seasons that I played ; he was no more effective that Abiamiri, Howard or Chris Clemons. Parker(80 overall) broke 10 sacks usually well before mid-season.

It's random.

[deadlyCane]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

Again, I'm not talking about players out of position. You say that ratings do not matter. Then how come a 75 rated OT gets dominated by a 90 rated DE, but can stonewall a DE rated 75? Forget for a minute about moving a punter to tackle, a receiver to defensive back or whatever. I'm talking about players who are playing their correct position. If ratings do not matter, then what is it that happens that allows for varying outcomes in regards to varying overall ratings?

I don't think it is fair to say take these things out of the equation. It's like a defense attorney going to court and asking the jury to ignore that fact that the murder defendant was caught at the scene both on video and by a crowd of eye witnesses with a gun in hand, a machette in the other, and blood drenched clothes. Moreover, if you edit the ratings of OLINEMEN to make them pathetic the results are the same as moving a player out of position. You don't have to move a player out of position to see this. I don't see how we can simply dismiss the obvious evidence.

[deadlyCane]

Hey G-Men, I’m glad you made that post. It brings to light one of the reasons why some people, like yourself, might still think ratings matter. Your posting about the difference you see in your linebackers make me think that perhaps this thread is incorrectly titled. I don’t think the OP is trying to say none of the ratings matter. Likewise, I would hope nobody would claim none of the ratings matter. That simply would’t be fair to EA and the Madden team. Ratings such as speed, kicking power, kick accuracy and the throwing ratings do matter. Maybe block shedding and tackling do as well, so you a difference in linebackers. Ratings like Route Running and, to a lesser extent, Man Coverage and Zone Coverage, don’t matter as much, but still more than the OL/DL. Anyway, that’s a different discussion for a different day.

The crux of this thread is that the ratings on the offensive and defensive lines DO NOT MATTER. I SAY THEY DO NOT MATTER IN ANYWAY. I did this test waaaaayyyy before the OP posted his findings. I was in a Bills franchise and, after a couple injuries to my OL, noticed that it didn’t make a difference whether my scrubs or starters were on the OL. They generally performed about the same. Now I’m not looking for Earth moving differences. Regardless, I wanted to know if it made more sense to spend high draft picks on the OL/DL vs stockpiling cornerbacks because I suck at playing pass defense. Like any sensible general manager, I wanted to know what positions mattered the most. I wasn’t trying to break the game. I did some tests by lowering player’s weight, size, strength and block ratings to where I was fielding olinemen of 25 OVR and in some cases less. I had entire lines of such players. I played several games and found no difference. If there were any difference they were negligible. I shouldn’t be able to field an NFL team where all my olinemen are clones of Roscoe Parish yet still routinely get 3 to 4 yards running while giving up 0 to 1 sacks against a dline of 99 OVR dlinemen where all their ratings were maxed out. If we ever saw an entire OLINE of Roscoe Parrish clones in the NFL the RB and QB would be killed. I still had all day to pass unless the cpu blitzed me. I then switched things around so the cpu had the crappy line and I the monster dline. No difference than normal. This negated thoughts of slider effects.

Also consider that after my tests, I decided to trade away my highest rated olinemen and replaced them with scrub backups. I did this because my highest rated olinemen were also my highest paid. Why pay them when that position is net neutral? I replaced them with scrubs from the FA pool as well as 55+ rated 6th and 7th rounders. I am about 6 games into my second season and my running numbers on average have not changed much since my first. I haven’t actually compared, just going off feel but I could post stats later. Even more surprising my passing has only gotten better. And no, I haven’t changed sliders. I do understand that I might actually have gotten better at the game, so that may account for slightly better passing numbers. But you did ask for a season full of played games, albeit only 6 games. I would think considering the NFL season is 16 games, 6 games is a good sample. The point is, the much inferior line has not set me back and Buffalo’s line was already bad to begin with.

If you are someone who doesn’t get into the intricacies of franchises and building your team I can understand why it doesn’t bother you. But knowing what I’ve observed makes it really hard to get into the strategy involved in franchise mode. It’s pretty much a franchise killer if you ask me. For some people, that in itself is a game killer.

I see some talk about ratings ceiling. If this is true and if it is a big contributor to what I’m observing with the OL/DL ratings then it needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Why should we have a ratings ceiling, especially when the cpu is putting players into positions that they don’t have the skill to play. Nevertheless, I still think the problem is bigger than a rating celing.

And to the people who are enjoying every aspect of the game, I genuinely don’t understand why it bothers you that others are asking for improvements. I sincerely ask, why does it bother you that much? Wouldn’t your day be better served to just move on and do something better with your day, like go enjoy the game?

[roadman]

I'll find out over the next few games on my end. No, I'm not putting in a PK or Punter in the OL, but in my coach mode franchise, Clay Mathews, rated an 82 was a beast. Led the team in sacks and tackles. Matthews went down for a season ending injury. Now, I'm putting the 70th ranked Poppinga into Mathews slot. It was either Poppinga or Jeremy Thompson, rated a 55.

So, I guess, according to this thread, Poppinga will start leading the team in sacks and tackles as Mattews did. I hope I'm not wrong on this.

I'll keep a close on on the games and stats.

My bad- skip this reasoning. 99% of the thread is talking about the OL ratings.

It will still be interesting to take notes at least.

[Dmacho]

Quote: Originally Posted by deadlyCane

Hey G-Men, I’m glad you made that post. It brings to light one of the reasons why some people, like yourself, might still think ratings matter. Your posting about the difference you see in your linebackers make me think that perhaps this thread is incorrectly titled. I don’t think the OP is trying to say none of the ratings matter. Likewise, I would hope nobody would claim none of the ratings matter. That simply would’t be fair to EA and the Madden team. Ratings such as speed, kicking power, kick accuracy and the throwing ratings do matter. Maybe block shedding and tackling do as well, so you a difference in linebackers. Ratings like Route Running and, to a lesser extent, Man Coverage and Zone Coverage, don’t matter as much, but still more than the OL/DL. Anyway, that’s a different discussion for a different day. The crux of this thread is that the ratings on the offensive and defensive lines DO NOT MATTER. I SAY THEY DO NOT MATTER IN ANYWAY. I did this test waaaaayyyy before the OP posted his findings. I was in a Bills franchise and, after a couple injuries to my OL, noticed that it didn’t make a difference whether my scrubs or starters were on the OL. They generally performed about the same. Now I’m not looking for Earth moving differences. Regardless, I wanted to know if it made more sense to spend high draft picks on the OL/DL vs stockpiling cornerbacks because I suck at playing pass defense. Like any sensible general manager, I wanted to know what positions mattered the most. I wasn’t trying to break the game. I did some tests by lowering player’s weight, size, strength and block ratings to where I was fielding olinemen of 25 OVR and in some cases less. I had entire lines of such players. I played several games and found no difference. If there were any difference they were negligible. I shouldn’t be able to field an NFL team where all my olinemen are clones of Roscoe Parish yet still routinely get 3 to 4 yards running while giving up 0 to 1 sacks against a dline of 99 OVR dlinemen where all their ratings were maxed out. If we ever saw an entire OLINE of Roscoe Parrish clones in the NFL the RB and QB would be killed. I still had all day to pass unless the cpu blitzed me. I then switched things around so the cpu had the crappy line and I the monster dline. No difference than normal. This negated thoughts of slider effects. Also consider that after my tests, I decided to trade away my highest rated olinemen and replaced them with scrub backups. I did this because my highest rated olinemen were also my highest paid. Why pay them when that position is net neutral? I replaced them with scrubs from the FA pool as well as 55+ rated 6th and 7th rounders. I am about 6 games into my second season and my running numbers on average have not changed much since my first. I haven’t actually compared, just going off feel but I could post stats later. Even more surprising my passing has only gotten better. And no, I haven’t changed sliders. I do understand that I might actually have gotten better at the game, so that may account for slightly better passing numbers. But you did ask for a season full of played games, albeit only 6 games. I would think considering the NFL season is 16 games, 6 games is a good sample. The point is, the much inferior line has not set me back and Buffalo’s line was already bad to begin with. If you are someone who doesn’t get into the intricacies of franchises and building your team I can understand why it doesn’t bother you. But knowing what I’ve observed makes it really hard to get into the strategy involved in franchise mode. It’s pretty much a franchise killer if you ask me. For some people, that in itself is a game killer. I see some talk about ratings ceiling. If this is true and if it is a big contributor to what I’m observing with the OL/DL ratings then it needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Why should we have a ratings ceiling, especially when the cpu is putting players into positions that they don’t have the skill to play. Nevertheless, I still think the problem is bigger than a rating celing. And to the people who are enjoying every aspect of the game, I genuinely don’t understand why it bothers you that others are asking for improvements. I sincerely ask, why does it bother you that much? Wouldn’t your day be better served to just move on and do something better with your day, like go enjoy the game?

Co-sign 100%. Also, I don't think the ratings for WRs or CBs matter much either. I've switched the Eagles CBs with WRs and the difficulty change in completing passes was non-existent or minimal at best .

I'm no programmer, but in all honesty , I think the problem is that there are too many ratings. Maybe that's why we don't really see a difference. For example, why is there a route running rating for Olineman ? Why do they need a run blocking strength and run blocking footwork ; they already had a run block rating, why not let strength and agility take care of run blocking footwork and strength. Why do defensive lineman need a power move rating and a finesse move rating. Should strength and agility take care of that. Why do defenders need a play recognition rating , shouldn't the awareness rating take care of that ?

QBs should have speed, agility, short, med, long accuracy, throwing power, carry , strength and throw in the run.

HBs should have strength, speed, agility, short, med, long accuracy( only if they've thrown a pass in the NFL or played QB in college) breaking tackles(trucking is breaking a tackle), route running, carry catching, and pass blocking.

FBs should have run blocking and everything that HBs have with the exception of throwing ratings.

WR sould have run blocking and everything HBs have except for pass blocking.

TEs should have everything a WR has, and have pass blocking

Olineman would have strength, agility, pass blocking, run blocking, awareness and speed.

Dlineman would have agility, speed, strength, pass blocking moves, tackling, hit power, zone coverage and awareness.

LBs would have everything dlineman have and man coverage.

Dbacks would have awareness, agility, man and zone coverage, strength, tackling, catching, pass rushing moves and speed.

My theory is that all these unneccessary ratings are occupying too much of the game's resources trying to calculate who sucks worse at things they'd never do in a game.

If you put a corner at WR try to get him to run a crossing route, he should just run diagnally across the field and if you throw it to him it should hit him in the back of the head.

If you try to assign a DE to man coverage, he should run around with his thumb up his butt for the duration of the play.