Do you feel the changes in Madden '10 were done in the interest of the "Sim" gamer?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

This is a Next gen problem Killroy. I'm not complaining because I can't stop it or something. It can be stopped with solid user play, but that isn't the point. The game itself is broken and doesn't respect football. You need to understand that. I am not someone "crying" that it is too hard to stop certain plays in madden, i am saying madden is too easy and unrealistic. What you get playing on the PS2 is different than what we get on the PS3 and 360. Your game is better, our game is prettier. that's the difference. I traded in my X-Box, PS2, NGC and games and such to get a 360 in early 2008 and was astonished how much worse Madden was on these systems. When you play offline you can easily go 19-0 and kill the computer because of all the exploits, AI problems and the fact the computer loves to throw pick 6's at your D. We can talk football, we can talk Madden, but we would be talking two different things. You don't even have to understand football to abuse madden. I have a friend who is just getting into football this year and can kick the computer's rear because this game is easy and unrealistic.

There are issues with the game, no doubt. However, broken to me means the game freezes out of the box and won't play for me.

Supposedly, they are fixing the flats coverage for the patch. I'm not sure how well it will come out.

Interesting, maybe I'm lousy calling plays, but in coach mode with the Packers, I'm 2-3. Not 5-0, but 2-3. I don't have house rules for calling plays at all. To me, I'm getting realistic games out of it. The QB's that are good in the NFL, are good in Madden, same with the RB's.

Again, I'm not denying there are issues(physics) with the game. There are and I hope they are fixable. My determination of a decent to good game is the number of hours I'm spending on it. I've spent probably close to 100 hrs with the game and we haven't had patch # 2, yet.

Anyone who has played Madden 09 and is currently playing 10 can tell that 10 is much better than 09 and appears to be going in the right direction. I hated 09. I'm not forgiving what we've had on NG, but it's a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

[Pared]

This isn't going to become a gripe thread.

If you answered the question, move on. But do not start repeating yourself, going on and on how ratings don't matter, the game is broken, etc. We've had enough of that, and we're not bringing down another thread because of it.

[alliance4g63]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Which also applies outside of "cheese" stuff. For example, if I ran the Eagles back in 2008 when Reid threw like 70% of the time, I wouldn't ever throw that much. Does that mean I wasn't being "sim" with the Eagles? I wasn't replicating what was happening on Sunday. Likewise, throwing to the flats/HB is "cheese", but that's exactly what the Ravens do - Ray Rice has a lot of catches, in fact, he's the team's leading receiver. But I'm "cheesing" if I do it in Madden, even though that's replicating what the Ravens do on Sunday. The whole "cheese" vs "sim" does over complicate things.

But IMO you are just using the RL comparison as justification for an A.I. exploiting play in the game. I would love to run no-huddle most of the game like many teams are successful with in the NFL. But I have never done that in the videogame because it has been a known exploit for years.

If I were to answer the question I would have to say no. Like Valderez said, the definition of "sim" between the Ea community and the 2k community is pretty different. Like mentioned before Ea is too concerned about not losing their casual fanbase than they are making a true sim game.

With great power comes great responsibility. Ea has the power and resources to not only make a true sim game but also change the entire communities' knowledge of football gaming as well as how they approach and play football games in the future. Unfortunately their bottomline takes precedence over delivering the football game we want and deserve.

[Boregard]

I voted No.

To me, and don't crucify me for this as it is just my opinion; I feel that EA did too much in the way of giving into the whiny element on the forums here and elsewhere. The jump ball is too effective, the post is too effective, the players move to fast, they change direction to quickly, cry, cry, cry!

Now some of those complaints are legitimate, but EA did not fix them in a way that makes sense. They just killed the effectiveness of certain things completely rather than make minor adjustments to correct the problems.

Let's take the jump ball thing - a common "exploit" from years past was to run a lot of hitch/ hook routes with tall receivers and throw high. So in M10 EA made the CBs jump the route way too often and too effectively (even when they have no safety help over the top) and they absolutely destroyed the advantage that a tall WR gave you on that route with decent coverage. Now some CBs are risk takers and may jump that route with no over the top help, but not every single time because the danger of getting burnt on a double move is too high - not in Madden though cuz the double moves take way too long to perform. That is just one of many ways that EA continually screws this game up - instead of tweaking things in the gameplay to make them balanced they just knee-jerk to forum complaints and kill things that really only needed some thoughtful but minor tweaking!!!

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by alliance4g63

But IMO you are just using the RL comparison as justification for an A.I. exploiting play in the game. I would love to run no-huddle most of the game like many teams are successful with in the NFL. But I have never done that in the videogame because it has been a known exploit for years.

So playing the Ravens just like the real life Ravens is cheese?

Of course I'm using a RL comparison, because I'm interested in playing the Ravens like their real life counterparts and their personnel is geared to that play style. Ray Rice goes outside and makes plays in the passing game while McClain and McGahee do the power aspect.

Replicating "what I see on Sunday" with the Ravens is now cheese because the AI sucks?

Sounds like an AI problem, not a "I'm not playing realistically problem". Or "I'm a dirty rotten cheeser" problem.

I'm starting to think EA is counting on players crippling their own selves instead of fixing the AI problems.

Which also goes back to me thinking "sim" has nothing to do with playing like real football outside of just not going for it on 4th down a lot and kicking onside kicks at "unusual" times.

To me "sim" means simulation, which means, "like real life". So while, yes, that includes not going for it on 4th and 20 in the first quarter, it should also include being able to use actual NFL strategy that actual NFL teams use.

[kjcheezhead]

At first glance I would say yes, but the more I think about it, the more it's a no. Basically, it's up to whoever purchased this game as to how they wanna play it offline. The only place people really cry about "cheese" is online ranked games. Madden 10 has just as much cheese in this area as it ever has.

1. If they really wanted to make changes in the interest of the sim gamer online, I think they would totally revamp the online ranking system and make it more call of duty style and give rewards for achieving different challenges using different teams/styles and not just having a great record by beating lower ranked players with 1-2 plays.

2. Beating a guy who is 15-20 levels below a player shouldn't really give that gamer many points, but it gives the same as the guy 20 levels behind gets for winning so tourney guys are rewarded for chewing up and spitting out newbies all day long.

3. The game already tracks a players tendencies, they could use that so when gamers run hurry up the whole game or run 2-3 plays, etc., their reward for winning the match is less, but they don't.

4. They could bring back "fair play" as an option so guys that want sim matches know their odds are better if they use this, but maybe cutdown on the reward points in these matches, but again they chose not too.

So at the end of the day, I gotta say no. They attempted to cut down on cheese, but the best way would be not to reward the guys that do, and they failed to do that at all.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

3. The game already tracks a players tendencies, they could use that so when gamers run hurry up the whole game or run 2-3 plays, etc., their reward for winning the match is less, but they don't.

What would really be sim is if the AI controlled players picked up on these tendencies and jumped them accordingly.

I think that would do more to encourage sim playcalling than rewards after the game is over.

[carnalnirvana]

i dont think the changes were done for the sim gamer. I will admit that the makers want a less arcade product but they have not done enough to penalize non sim gameplay with those changes