Death to BOB, or, how blocking should work

[REDRZA]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Yeah, there's still a lot of that in the NFL. I'm thinking it's a series of variations on the Power-O... Sven's description of the trap jogged my memory a bit. That 92 yard run Garrison Hearst made against the Jets in OT back in '98 was this same play, except it was run out of (I believe) a Twins Split formation with a bit of a quick draw action by the QB... the ball was handed off in front of the QB. @REDRZA: yes, there has to be a counter. That counter would be linemen squeezing down holes, backers taking on the leads, and pursuit assignments/run fits.

Saw ALOT of insane gap pressure and weak/strong side overloads this past weekend. My Jets make Madden look realistic

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by REDRZA

Saw ALOT of insane gap pressure and weak/strong side overloads this past weekend. My Jets make Madden look realistic

Jets nano blitz WAY too much in real life.

[Sven Draconian]

In a bout of irony at it's finest, I saw the Jets try and run a trap in the 1st quarter. The DT closed the hole down and the back had to bounce it backside and outside for abotu 12 yards.

Back looked a little deep to be trying to run a trap (7 yards), probably why the hole never opened.

It could have also been a power that had too much penetration. Hard to tell on a TV angle. Still, my first thought was "They just ran a trap"

[tasice]

[quote=Sven Draconian;2040622588]

Quote: Originally Posted by tasice

If nobody runs BOB blocking, how do you explain blocking in an empty formation? You can't area block, you are short a person, and since you are empty a back obviously isn't doing it. How about plays were the backs release into patterns (think WCO). Again, your an area short. BOB protection is common place in the NFL. You BOB a 5-step drop, you area a 3-step block. PA can be either, it depends on the run your faking and how the PA is targetting.

This is why most often times, there is a free rusher if they blitz a 5 WR set....or if no RB stays in to help block, the QB is responsible for any other free rushers in that situation...he must know where he is coming from and find the hot receiver...

The fundamental key is that guys never just ignore anyone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpJ76UzA2W4

Look at this video, the green bay highlight is a perfect example (abt 2:20)....if they are blocking BOB in a shotgun play (equivalent to 5-7 step drop), why is the center w/o anyone to block...he helps block NT...the back releases prematurely before seeing that the RT is occupied in his blocking area...and with the center engaged, he is not aware of the other free pass rusher....and sack. Most of these sacks are not b/c of poor blocking scheme...just players beating the lineman blocking that area

If BOB blocking on pass plays does exist in the NFL.....it is in a VERY VERY VERY limited basis...BOB blocking goes out after high school....

now BOB for run blocking does exist...

[adembroski]

[quote=tasice;2040622189]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

BOB= Big on Big (IE: Lineman on Lineman).They wouldn't pick up a blitzing linebacker, they would leave that to the running backs. The running back should really be on check and release routes. Check the blitzers, if noone comes, you release. If somebody blitzes you pick them up. I don't think that is totally correct. An offensive lineman's (Guard or Center) first responsibility is the A gap...since its the shortest path to the QB. There is no way a guard should leave a blitzing LB in the A gap for a RB in a 3 down lineman situation....

This is precisely the difference we're talking about. BoB is Man to Man blocking, not gap orientated. In zone protections, yes, the linemen take a gap and will pick up a linebacker.

Take 7 man split back protection (24/25 or 324/325 protections)... looking at the traditional 3-4 alignment, the old Giants L.T. defense... you're gonna have the ends head or shading the tackles, and the nose head up on the center. The inside backers will line up across from the guards, Sam's gonna be shading outside the TE, and Will is going to be 2 yards outside the LT.

The Center will call "Open" here, telling the LT to open to Will (he'll set on 7) and the guard will slide to pick up the end (if Will doesn't come, the Guard will pass the end to the tackle and move back inside to help the back). This means HB has to pick up the "A" gap, as the center has the nose. On the right side, however, you'll have the guard checking Matt before helping out on the nose. The FB will check Sam.

The hard part about getting these protections right is that they're designed with sentient minds involved. Madden has to be able to account for every potential alignment it sees, where as a man can reason the closest thing to what he's practiced if he sees a new front. This is why I don't anticipate a defensive formation editor for M11... it would just create difficulties getting the blocking system working right.

[pietasterp]

Just an out-and-out fantastic read. Thanks for that insightful (and labor-intensive) post, Sven. Just when I think I know a lot about football, I read something like this that makes me realize I should probably just shut up and watch my team on Sundays...

[davjaffe]

I noticed that this thread petered out lately, and I was sad to see that - it had been very informative and interesting.

I wonder if any of the things discussed will somehow manifest in Madden 11. I find myself crossing my fingers that Mr. Cummings read through the thread and took it to heart.

[Hova57]

Quote: Originally Posted by davjaffe

I noticed that this thread petered out lately, and I was sad to see that - it had been very informative and interesting. I wonder if any of the things discussed will somehow manifest in Madden 11. I find myself crossing my fingers that Mr. Cummings read through the thread and took it to heart.

it was pretty beat there was really no things to add you could get into other defensive formations as far as nickel dime 3-3-5 and so on but at that point it gets down to personell