Pass Pro: BOB, Full Slide, and Half Slide

[adembroski]

Sister thread

[DerkontheOS]

bump.... Needs to be somewhere near the top, so devs cans see it.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Good write up adem. But my main question is how is it when the settings on madden 10 is on all pro and above the AI seems to pick up blitz perfectly and the AI DBs and LBs seem to cover every route perfectly. That kind of boobles my mind some what. I wish Ian would just make the game play balance on all setting so the AI won't overpowering nor the human user neither. I know that very hard to balance. But I hope they find a way to do it.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pantherbeast

Good write up adem. But my main question is how is it when the settings on madden 10 is on all pro and above the AI seems to pick up blitz perfectly and the AI DBs and LBs seem to cover every route perfectly. That kind of boobles my mind some what. I wish Ian would just make the game play balance on all setting so the AI won't overpowering nor the human user neither. I know that very hard to balance. But I hope they find a way to do it.

Meta-game thinking.

On the programmer end of things I think there is some of the meta game mentality where they're thinking "How do we balance this as a video game" rather than "How do we make this realistic". It really is a tough balance because there are aspects of the sport that don't translate well to video games.

I think they get caught up in neutralizing "Nano-blitzing" and thus make the line too capable of shutting down blitzes. The truth of the matter is that most nano-blitzes are effective only because the person with his hands on the controller don't know how to respond to the blitz. They don't know their check downs, so to speak, and can't handle it. There's a hot route (I mean this in the football sense, not the Madden on-the-fly adjustment sense) on virtually every play, and most plays are designed to deal with blitzes effectively, but the guy playing the game doesn't know how to use those routes.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Meta-game thinking. On the programmer end of things I think there is some of the meta game mentality where they're thinking "How do we balance this as a video game" rather than "How do we make this realistic". It really is a tough balance because there are aspects of the sport that don't translate well to video games. I think they get caught up in neutralizing "Nano-blitzing" and thus make the line too capable of shutting down blitzes. The truth of the matter is that most nano-blitzes are effective only because the person with his hands on the controller don't know how to respond to the blitz. They don't know their check downs, so to speak, and can't handle it. There's a hot route (I mean this in the football sense, not the Madden on-the-fly adjustment sense) on virtually every play, and most plays are designed to deal with blitzes effectively, but the guy playing the game doesn't know how to use those routes.

I understand what you are saying and all. But to me it seems the AI step for step with the WR. The AI I know is knows the routes because is programed to. Just like today. A few times I stoped and paused the game and did a few instant replays. It seems when WR run 5 yards up field then take turn the left are right depending the that rooute. The AI seems to cut on a dime to keep with the WR. I thought the Dev was surppose to stop the on a dime scheme last year. It seems in the replays I see the AI cut on dime with and momtum what so every. I just want the game to balance to where the AI not been overpowered and the human user neither.

[achain]

Very nice Adem. You must be a fan of Movin' The Chains.

I love learning about all this kind of stuff - really makes you realize how tactics play a huge role in the NFL.

[Icarus2k9]

And this is why I hate people chiming in on Xs and Os when they don't know them. How many people try to give "advice" to the devs when they don't really know what they are talking about, and muddy the waters? (See: Running animation)

This thread, on the other hand, is honest to goodness stirling stuff. Excellent job - keyboard jockeys need not apply. I'm highly confused by it all, but loving it. (I blame the Britishness)

[Hova57]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pantherbeast

I understand what you are saying and all. But to me it seems the AI step for step with the WR. The AI I know is knows the routes because is programed to. Just like today. A few times I stoped and paused the game and did a few instant replays. It seems when WR run 5 yards up field then take turn the left are right depending the that rooute. The AI seems to cut on a dime to keep with the WR. I thought the Dev was surppose to stop the on a dime scheme last year. It seems in the replays I see the AI cut on dime with and momtum what so every. I just want the game to balance to where the AI not been overpowered and the human user neither.

that ai issue is very frustrating, because to properly cover anyone and tackle its all about position, and awareness but in this game at times it blends and fixes one when the other isn't present.

to play defense right, the db animations and logic should be independant of the reciever. the ai should make plays based on keys ie:formation, position on the field , personell on field and mostly technique. not all cb can jam, not all can play man, if one is weak it should show. also dbs should have personalities for instance bailey would be shutdown corner-so he would play the man, not the ball til its in the area , which in turn means he would have an high awareness for when to make a play on the ball , but some one like asante samuel- is a ball hawk, he plays the ball not the man he bites on pumps and double moves-because he faces the qb that's an animation we should see. he plays off and good in zone , because he can face the qb and watch the ball. I'm not trying to go the weapons route, but giving the players personalities which would be tendancies to how to play the cb.

the same could be said for safeties there keys are different than the cb - number of recievers to side, location of te , two back or one , yard and distance. for a safety they are intially labled ball hawks because they play mostly zone and can face qb they react to ball thrown to assist. safeties should have a lb mentality, tackle , cover zone once ball is snapped on responsibilities. one thing i would like to see happen is the safety to bite on playaction, madden 10 i never see safety bite on pump or playaction , just the cbs and lbs . like other weapons you would have coverage and run support safeties- that is huge in the nfl today there are only about 8 safeties can actually play coverage, the rest are more hard hitters, they tend to be out of posistion for over the top help, bite on playaction plays because of their willingness to help with the run. coverage guys tend to be able to help on run, but best at help over top and covering te, - these safties tend to get caught out of position on long runs, because they are covering their zone.

if i'm off base fine , but i think i'm on to something tell me what you think