New attribute idea - Motor?

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by rickywal

I hear you. See the thing is most coaches will know when a guy is not giving 100%. So when I play this I want an indication that my guy is faltering, then its my call to leave him in and hope he isn't exploited, or take him out for a guy not as talented but will play hard. I don't know if it exists in the game at the moment but I'm all for ratings drops with the stamina levels. So stamina says how quickly a player tires or 'gives up', but they start at 100%. Now if my DE gets steamrolled by Jacobs, or gets pancaked several times by the tackle then his stamina level drops (changes colour in the play call screen) and with that so does his rating. The higher my stamina the more it will take to drop my level - therefore I play more consistent. At the moment I think the only thing stamina does is for auto-subs and maybe injuries.

The thing is how do coaches know players are not preforming at their highest level or not giving 100%? Is it some little indicator showing up on their clipboard telling them? No, they see the player slipping and then have to make a decision. You would have the same opportunity as well as the opportunity to use more consistant players if they are available.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by rickywal

I hear you. See the thing is most coaches will know when a guy is not giving 100%. So when I play this I want an indication that my guy is faltering, then its my call to leave him in and hope he isn't exploited, or take him out for a guy not as talented but will play hard.

Your indicator is the player's play on the field.

Wouldn't that be enough? To me, having an indicator would be like having Ms Cleo on the sideline because you'd know when a guy is going to slack off before he slacks off. Coaches sure wish they had that ability!

Quote: Originally Posted by rickywal

I don't know if it exists in the game at the moment but I'm all for ratings drops with the stamina levels. So stamina says how quickly a player tires or 'gives up', but they start at 100%. Now if my DE gets steamrolled by Jacobs, or gets pancaked several times by the tackle then his stamina level drops (changes colour in the play call screen) and with that so does his rating. The higher my stamina the more it will take to drop my level - therefore I play more consistent. At the moment I think the only thing stamina does is for auto-subs and maybe injuries.

That's fatigue and that's in the game (imo), and that's a different issue (imo) so I don't think it should replace the idea of consistency.

[rickywal]

Coaches know their players pretty well. They can tell by body language and attitude whether they are giving them 100%, but at times they try keep them in to get something happening or take em out for a bit and give them a talking to and try get them fired up. I wouldn't expect it to go from 'he is at 100%' to 'he isn't trying' there would be the initial change of colour that could be wearing out from lots of game time, or it could be getting beaten constantly by the opposition and losing confidence/drive. Coaching staff pick up on these things, its their job, position coaches, co-ordinators etc. But often when a player like Ochocinco becomes frustrated and loses focus they leave him in, because lets face it, he is better than their other options.

At the moment when I use my DE, sometimes I get by the player other times I don't. After 3-4 times not getting past him do I assume he isn't playing consistent? I do like the idea of having this in the game, but how do you make it solid and not feel like the CPU is cheating? Currently people have a bit of a thing of 'comeback AI' which EA says isn't in the game, but there does seem to be a distinct rise in talent in the 4th quarter at times. Or QBs that play a rubbish 1st half but then come out playing like Peyton Manning for the second half. Maybe make the 'hardcore' option where the players don't show their fatigue and you have to try and pick it. But with all the bugs and glitches that've been in the game I want to see transparency in how, why and what is happening.

[rickywal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Your indicator is the player's play on the field. Wouldn't that be enough? To me, having an indicator would be like having Ms Cleo on the sideline because you'd know when a guy is going to slack off before he slacks off. Coaches sure wish they had that ability!

Seeing your LB get beaten in coverage doesn't mean he is slacking off, sometimes its because he just got straight beat, or he is fatigued, or your bad play calling. Who do you replace him with? Do you leave him out for the rest of the game or try get him back in there? If you know Julius Peppers is slacking off do you take him out for someone not as good when Julius still could make that big play? You have an idea when a player is struggling, but you don't have an idea when he is back on his game.

The truth with this game is that you don't win the one on one battles 100% of the time as it is. So putting in some random motor rating means can you just not sack Manning (Brady or Brees), or are your players having off days? The trick would be to have the 'consistency' rating determined at the start of the game, not sporadically through out it, there would be no indicator to whether it took effect or not, only by the players play.

Also another thing to make note of is that a lot of players aren't 3-down players. Some players that go missing are because they are in the game all the time. While some teams manage these guy - like the Titans did with Haynesworth. He actually was not always on the field, but because he'd be rested when he'd come on he could be super disruptive.

[catcatch22]

Quote: Originally Posted by rickywal

The trick would be to have the 'consistency' rating determined at the start of the game, not sporadically through out it, there would be no indicator to whether it took effect or not, only by the players play.

This was actually and still is done in the Winning Eleven/Pro Evolution Soccer Series.

Before the game you can see who is in form and who is not. Obviously you still want to play the top guys that have high ratings regardless of poor form or not. However for mid-level and lesser guys you may need someone else to play.

Difference is in soccer you only get three subs while in football you are constantly substituting and changing guys. The starting eleven in a football game is less significant than the starting eleven in a soccer match.

However the idea is a good one. Though I believe the original poster wanted to show toughness, heart and busyness not necessarily consistency. With that in mind guys who are more aggressive are the ones considered the high motor guys. The guys who run everywhere they go at full speed even at the end of the whistle. That is something different and I can't grasp any attribute to it except the aggression rating in NFL 2k5. I have yet to see a football game replicate it totally.

In All Pro Football 2k8 I found the players with the "Loose Ball Magnet" ability mixed with the "Stamina" ability to be high motor guys. I think a mix of aggression and high stamina could also achieve the same goal. High pursuit and high stamina maybe.

[cubsball899]

Quote: Originally Posted by fahrenheit

yeah motor is the mental equivalent of stamina. but i doubt it would go in or have much of an effect because EA is known for not including personality type ratings like leadership or trash talk. and that would be a hard attribute to judge, how do you determine who has the better motor between michael turner or marion barber?

how do you determine who has the better man coverage between michael turner or marion barber?

[JohnnyNutman]

i think a rating like this should be in. it shouldnt be called motor tho. "hustle" is probably a more fitting traditional term.

there would be a difference between that and stamina as well. stamina would be a players physical fitness, while motor/hustle would be whether or not a player keeps playing hard in the 4th quarter when they are down by 3 touchdowns or if he doesnt give up on a play even if he's on the other side of the field.

[catcatch22]

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnnyNutman

i think a rating like this should be in. it shouldnt be called motor tho. "hustle" is probably a more fitting traditional term. there would be a difference between that and stamina as well. stamina would be a players physical fitness, while motor/hustle would be whether or not a player keeps playing hard in the 4th quarter when they are down by 3 touchdowns or if he doesnt give up on a play even if he's on the other side of the field.

Well he can't out hustle his stamina. A high motor guy would have to have high stamina in order to outwork people.