Some tidbits on gang tackling (and a few other things)

[globalbeats7]

yea. its a game killer for sure. ive shelved it for TW11 until a patch comes out. so disgusted with that too. I might just return it and get NCAA since almost everyone says its better than the NFL version.

but its 2010 on next generation consoles, step up your game EA!!!!!!

[maddenps2]

Most of the gang tackles I see on Madden next gen coulda been done on PS2/XBOX madden with a little effort IMO. The 4 man gang tackles are basically like the 2 man gang tackles on PS2, scripted and when the mean are around the right position they get sucked to a certain point on the ball carrier to take part in the scripted ganag tackle. Nothing seems next gen or un-scripted about anything i've seen. Anything as they claimed with the release of protak certainly can't happen.

[rodd888]

This breaks the game. There is no other way to describe it. It is broken. Pro-tak is a very good concept, but if it is only for aesthetics and you are not actually able to affect the outcome of the gang tackle, it is completely worthless and not worth having in the game. I should be able to voluntarily engage the runner at any time and affect the tackle. Now, 2k only allows 2 guys to be engaged at once in a gang tackle, but it works because I can bring the second guy in and knock the runner backwards, sideways, etc., etc, depending on where I hit him. No way is Jerious Norwood breaking out of that tackle if I can hit him with Cofield, Canty and Boley along with Justin Tuck hanging onto him. If this happened rarely, it would be a little more passable. However, it happens constantly. Not being able to affect the tackles ruins any positive addition something like pro-tak brings to the game.


Great Post... and so so true. Ive been waiting 3 years to play Madden again, as soon as they work out a good tackle system, I'll buy it again.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by rodd888

This breaks the game. There is no other way to describe it. It is broken. Pro-tak is a very good concept, but if it is only for aesthetics and you are not actually able to affect the outcome of the gang tackle, it is completely worthless and not worth having in the game. I should be able to voluntarily engage the runner at any time and affect the tackle.

I would say it breaks the game also:

EA Sports: Madden NFL 11 Video Highlight

He runs through the first tackler, then runs through FOUR guys attempting to tackle him at once. Then for good measure a last tackler than slides off his back.

That's more than half the defense involved - and failing - to bring down one person.

Pro-Tak as a concept was flawed; I think it's obvious the Tiburon crew focused more on how many people they could join into a tackle animation, than worrying about how a tackle animation should occur. Gang/group tackling is needed but it's one of those things where the team went about the complete wrong way trying to implement it.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I would say it breaks the game also: EA Sports: Madden NFL 11 Video Highlight He runs through the first tackler, then runs through FOUR guys attempting to tackle him at once. Then for good measure a last tackler than slides off his back. That's more than half the defense involved - and failing - to bring down one person. Pro-Tak as a concept was flawed; I think it's obvious the Tiburon crew focused more on how many people they could join into a tackle animation, than worrying about how a tackle animation should occur. Gang/group tackling is needed but it's one of those things where the team went about the complete wrong way trying to implement it.

Agreed and agree with Taz.

This is a major gripe with me. They need to spend time with gang tackling and make it work or take out Pro-Tak completely and put another new code in regarding gang tackling.

Lowering broken tackles helps some, but not enough across the board.

[MAzing87]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I would say it breaks the game also: EA Sports: Madden NFL 11 Video Highlight He runs through the first tackler, then runs through FOUR guys attempting to tackle him at once. Then for good measure a last tackler than slides off his back. That's more than half the defense involved - and failing - to bring down one person. Pro-Tak as a concept was flawed; I think it's obvious the Tiburon crew focused more on how many people they could join into a tackle animation, than worrying about how a tackle animation should occur. Gang/group tackling is needed but it's one of those things where the team went about the complete wrong way trying to implement it.

Yea. MJD is without a doubt a powerful runner but 4 defenders actually engaging him at once, where there's no momentum (force and weight of all 4 defenders to take down 1 man), and manages to break free is ridiculous. I haven't played M11 yet, but from what I have seen and read, it just seems like the game favors the offensive side of the ball, you can only pray to make plays on defense.

Which reminds me, those who have M11, how many 3 and outs or long drives stopped by great defensive play have any of you experienced?

Notice #74 at the 0:03 sec mark, where he does a plant (locomotion?) to get towards MJD. And #11 shows no emotion after that long run. He just stops and turns away like it was a 2 yard gain.

[Goffs]

uuuggghh...you know what im just going to wait for the patch to get this game...from the vids provided all i see are broken tackles and its way to offensive heavy...its just to ridiculous to watch....

[REDRZA]

If you have played this game for more than just a few years, you realize that this topic is just one example of this games biggest problem, which is that every single thing you see on screen is a scripted animation that simple plays out, and not one single player on the field is an indepent being. Ill explain.

The way Madden has worked over the years is that each player, and even the ball has a certain radius around them. When 2 players come into that set parameter, a 2 player animation plays out. Look at the LOS, after the snap lineman engage, but there is never a north/south push. They stand ground until either the DL'men break off or the ball gets past the LOS. The action on field is a farce, the players are not individual beings with mass and momentum, the action you see is a 2 player canned animation that simply gives the eye the illusion of a block.

Same thing goes for tackles. For the exact reasons thehe OP stated. Your user controlled defender never makes a difference in "cleaning up" a player already being tackled because its a 2 player scripted animation, you have no effect on that.

Also, that's why you see suction blocking and even RC'ing. When a LB gets into the Offensive blockers set parameter, the animation triggers even though the LB had momentum and an angle, creating that suction.

RC'ing occurs because once you turn your WR around short of the ball placement indicator, the WR has the same effect as the suction block, the coding realizes that the ball and WR are not in that invisible Force field, or set parameter, and morphs the WR to the ball because that's the animation that's triggered.

Until they implement realistic physics to go along with player ratings, and get rid of the scriped, canned 2 player animations and make each player truely independent of each other, this game will always have 'legacy code' issues that plague it every year.