What ratings DO[?]

[rooney8]

Quote: Originally Posted by sb24

Return rating is the guys ability to catch a punt or kick, not actually run with the ball IMO.

I have definately noticed if you returner has good carry but bad return ratings he will fumble constantly.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Depends on the speed the players are moving in relation to the ball...

If they are both standing still then

I asked the developers what the new locomotion engine meant for jumping during the Madden 11 live chats and only got the reply that "locomotion doesn't affect jumping".

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Spin Move ratings don't replace the AGI ratings. They work together in unison... A player with a high SPN and AGI ratings will spin faster and gain more lateral movement with his spins than someone with low SPN and AGI ratings.

We disagree. Agility to me means how acrobatic and light-footed a player is. Therefore agility should determine a players ability to preform spin or juke moves and I see no reason why we need several ratings for the same thing. It would be like having a two speed ratings - one with and one without the ball.

Regarding the return rating I'm a bit puzzled. sb24's idea sounds plausible, but I haven't noticed any increase in muffed punts from using a player with a low return rating.

[MrCheese]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I would like an official responce from EA, but I am not going to hold my breath. However, I can ask the OS community what their impressiosn and opinions on what ratings do. Ratings such as Speed, Agility, Accelration, Strength, Jump, Catch, Tackle, Juke, Spin, Stiff Arm, etc are all easy to understand. That's not what I am talking about. Beat the Press and Press are also obvious. Route Running has nothing to do with how well your receiver runs his routes, it is only checked agaisnt Man Coverage, and possibly Zone Coverage, to find out if a defender "wins" in coverage or not. Power Moves are meassuered agaisnt Run/Pass Blocking strength while Finesse Moves are measured agaisnt Run/Pass Blocking Footwork. However, what does Impact Block and Block Shedding mean? Is Impact Block the chance of getting a pancake on contact? How does Block Shedding differ from Power/Finesse moves? I think catch in Traffic deals directly to how likely a receiver will hold onto a caught pass while/after getting hit. I think throw on the run is a check as to what kind of penalty a QB takes to his accuracy while on the run. So, for example, Big Ben has 97 throw on the run, so he throws just as well while moving as he is standing still.

Route running determines how they run their routes... playing as the colts make it painfully clear. R Wayne doesn't get knocked off his route nearly as much as the other WR. He doesn't get snagged in traffic or get stuck, he finds a way to stay on target, and the cuts that are made are quick. That's what route running does.

Catch in Traffic is the ability to hold onto the ball when a defender is near. If you play as the Titans or the Ravens you can see it pretty clear. K Britt has great catch in traffic and he doesn't drop a pass when someone is near, but you get someone like Washington who has a low catch in traffic and he drops way more passes when he isn't WIDE open.

You might be right on Throwing on the run, but I think it should be changed to "throwing on the move" because if your sprinting... the chances of making that pass are pretty low.

[im_noob]

Quote: Originally Posted by seriousluboy83

Impact blocking is just as you stated...pancakes and such...but it really doesn't matter because the linemen aren't aggressive enough in their run blocking assignments Block shedding is strickly for the run...that's why 3-4 defensive linemen have a high block shed rating...it's basically a rating to show how good guys are at the run fits/plugging holes/stopping the run Power moves/Finesse moves are strickly for the pass...and i still can't figure out why for the life of me why donny gives 3-4 linemen above average power moves or finesse moves when they rarely ever contribute in the passing defense example DT Aubrayo Franklin...7 year vet...power moves 88...career sacks 4...really donny???

This bothers me a little bit too.

I hope this year they finally fix some attributes/depth chart issues concerning the 3-4 defense.

No reason that Brandon Graham, who was touted pre-draft as being a 3-4 OLB, should lose like 20 points when you move him to OLB.

At the same time it shouldn't be possible to have Dwight Freeney play DE in a 3-4.

I'd like to see the scheme effect ratings.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

If they are both standing still then

Bench 'em both. LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

I asked the developers what the new locomotion engine meant for jumping during the Madden 11 live chats and only got the reply that "locomotion doesn't affect jumping".

Often what the devs say (or how we spin what they say) is merely PR. Nothing personal, but I pay absolutely no attention to what the devs say most of the time.

I trust the game though. It never lies.

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

We disagree. Agility to me means how acrobatic and light-footed a player is. Therefore agility should determine a players ability to preform spin or juke moves and I see no reason why we need several ratings for the same thing. It would be like having a two speed ratings - one with and one without the ball.

In the olden Madden days AGI, meant a player's ability to change directions. it refers to any move that requires a change of direction. Cuts, jukes, spins, and even stopping are affected by the AGI rating.

Nowadays, The additional items are specifically targeted to the effectiveness of a specific moves. These are the ratings that separate the feel of certain players.

Where one guy might have a high AGI, but he doesn't use the spin much, he's going to have a low spin rating. His ELU rating may be high because he's able to break tackles and make people miss in other ways. Without the additional ratings, Marion Barber might run the same as DeAngelo Williams.

Later

[guaps]

As I played a game earlier today, I noticed that it appeared that Antonio Gates got what appeared to be some sort of speed bursts in his cuts, which looked very odd. I looked at his ratings and saw nothing unusual in his agility rating, but noticed that he had a 94 route running rating and decided to test this in practice mode to see how these two ratings affects the game.

First, I tested two receivers with equal ACC, AGI and SPD rating (95), and allowed receiver A to have a 95 RTE rating, while Receiver B got a 75 RTE rating. The result was that the 95 RTE receiver gets in and out of his cuts a lot faster that the other receiver, despite their agility being the same. This is why it appears that receivers with high RTE ratings get a speed burst when running routes.

Second, I tested the same two receivers with the only change that receiver A got a 75 AGI rating this time. What I saw was that receiver B accelerated a lot faster than receiver A, despite having the same ACC rating. Even more strange, the receivers were equally fast in their cuts, meaning that route running and agility are basically canceling each other out. A high RTE, low AGI combination receiver runs almost an identical route as a low RTA, high AGI receiver. The high AGI receiver accelerates faster, but the high RTE receiver catches up in the cut.

Overall, my observations are quite puzzling to be honest and I've have lost bit of faith in the locomotion system. I was disappointed to see that a low RTA, high AGI receiver was accelerating faster than a high RTA, low AGI receiver when the two receiver had the same acceleration rating (which then does what?). Also that it appears that the AGI and RTE rating seem to cancel each out in terms of running routes - isn't it basically just two side of the same coin then?

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

Overall, my observations are quite puzzling to be honest and I've have lost bit of faith in the locomotion system. I was disappointed to see that a low RTA, high AGI receiver was accelerating faster than a high RTA, low AGI receiver when the two receiver had the same acceleration rating (which then does what?). Also that it appears that the AGI and RTE rating seem to cancel each out in terms of running routes - isn't it basically just two side of the same coin then?

Well, the part you are forgetting is that Route Running is also checked against the Man [and I would assume zone] coverage ratigns of the defenders to help determine who "won" the route on a given play. I was running a Colts/Jets game computer vs computer and there were plays where Wayne [88 Speed] would "beat" Cromatrie when Cromartie was ased to cover him from time to time, although Cromartie is the better "athlete" [speed, acceleration, agility.] I can only assume that was becasue Wayne was "the better football player," who had 99 route running. Namely, Wayne and Cormartie would stay step for step with each other, or Wayen may even be losing the route, however, after the pass was thrown Wayne found ways to get to the ball first and make the plays. This happend, but far less often when Revis [high speed and like 99 or 98 man coverage] was asked to cover Wayne. In fact, in the two games I ran, one at Indy, the other in New Jersey, Revis had a pick 6 agaisnt Manning and Wayne after making a good break on the ball.

The point I guess would be that high agility can make up for poor route running [to a point] and that solid route running can make up for a lack of athletic ability [T.J. anyone?] but that a WR with great agility and route running can dominate [White Wes Welker.]

[guaps]

I wasn't forgetting man coverage. I was trying to look into what creates the separation between different receivers with certain ratings - and ultimately the separation between receiver and defensive back.

My interpretation, based on playing lots of games over the years and doing some testing, is that Madden uses route running and coverage ratings determine the speed burst of a player. If the defender ratings wins the calculations, then the defender gets a speed burst that allows him to shut down the receiver - whether man or zone coverage. Alternatively, if the receiver wins the battle, he gets a speed burst that allows him to make the catch.

I guess that I would prefer that man coverage was tied to a defenders awareness and ability to read the receivers routes correctly. Subsequently route running was about being exactly where the QB thinks you are supposed to be and setting up defenders by selling different routes to create separation. In all honestly, a route running rating doesn't mean much until we get route-based passing, but I'll get into that next month, when I plan to give my vision for Madden ratings in the future.