Why can't I control the quarterback in shotgun after the ball is snapped?

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

Gaither, The problem is the combination of a bad snap and the auto drop back. Against good pressure you are crippled and can get nothing done.

Welcome to the NFL. A bad snap plus pressure causes sacks and intentional grounding in the league. There is no real intentional in Madden. Also, when a QB does get a play off after a bad snap and under pressure it is rare and awesome. It's the same way in Madden. Rare, and awesome. Not an issue

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I dont know the statistics around % of bad snaps in the NFL but it seems to me when I have between 5-7 terrible snaps a game and I'm only running 30-40 plays in a typical 4 minuate game (increase the snaps for a longer game) it just seems way off.

The NFL averages 120 offensive plays per game. That's an average of 60 offensive snaps per team. this changes based on ball control and other factors, but these are the averages. With 12-15min quarters, accelerated clock, and using the play clock like you should, there will be between 110-130 plays per game, depending on length of Quarter and how realistic you run your 2min offense. 4min quarters, even without accelerated clock is very unrealistic, however, 5 or so bad snap [which are only in the shot gun] out of 30+ plays isn't that bad.

Now, I know you use a lot of Shotgun, I see your videos. I know that of those 30-40 plays, a lot are out f the gun, so that 5-7 bad snaps is even more reasonable. then, of those 5 or so sanps, how many times does your protection fail? Maybe you need to keep a TE or HB in to pass protect for you on 3rd and long to give you time in the pocket and CYA in case there is a bad snap, like real life.
I think the bad snaps feature is a good thing as well but I have yet to come across what truly effects the bad snaps, good center, bad center, doesn't matter. From my experiance with the game I personally think its the worst addition they have ever put into the game.

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Next Gen Madden was all about getting rid of CANNED animation.

Since when?

[quote]What is the auto-dropback? It is a canned animation!!! I just don't see it being a realisitc solution to trying to prevent people from "scrambling".[quote] Animations are a good thing. Madden just doesn't do as good a job with them as 2k games did. Animations are mo-cap of what real players do on the field. Mechanics. Even Joe Montana and Fran Tarkington didn't scramble the second they got the snap except on designed roll outs.

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As I have said before it is very easy to contain a QB on the run in Madden so the cheese fest that some bring up, for me is just not a problem.

That's cool, you can solve a game play issue, that doesn't stop it from being an issue.

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A couple contains and a spy will shutdown the run first QB, sure you will give other things up with this type of defense, but thats what its all about, a cat and mouse game.

you won't get any disagreement here about that.

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Also I'm a MADDEN player, not a tournament player, not a sim player...A MADDEN PLAYER!!!

Which means what? That's like calling yourself Agnostic. There is no such thing. Also, if you regular tournaments, you are a tournament player. I like you videos, but they are tips on how to play Madden better, and that's cool. But you also encourage taking advatange of AI issues and the use of the rocket catch. I cannot condone that. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Don't think I am bashing you or are mad at you or anything. I like a lot of what you have to say, even if we do not always see eye to eye.

When it comes to bad snaps and short auto drop back, which it is short, I am all in favor of it.

Have you ever played a 2k game? have you ever tried scrambling in hat game compared to madden? have you ever tried throwing across your body in that game compared to madden, more so while scrambling? In 2k5 Visual Concepts brought in both Tom Brady and Tim Rattay to do motion capture work, assuming so Brady could give them great mechanics and Rattay could give them, well, Rattay mechanics. 2k has actual QB movements from the real QB and how they do things in the NFL. Madden does not, but they have been getting better at it. Madden is a far more arcade "anything goes, reward the user" play style that will throw out realism in favor of the big play. 2k games will punish the user for making mistakes, which is a big reason why Madden tournament players do not like 2k games.

[sgibs7]

I love the game! Just wish the auto drop back was removed!

[sgibs7]

its not a issue or pressure or complaining because of this and that...I just think its the most unrealistic thing that could ever be put into what they want to be considered a simulation.

the fact that they FORCE a drop back is just a bit silly IMO. Why give control of the QB at all then? Have the QB just sit in the pocket for you and then scramble if they feel pressure. Take it a step further...why not just have the QB pick what WR to throw to (just the type of direction its going to, less user interaction...more CPU action)

It's not up to canned animations to "police" the game. I just feel that is what the auto drop back is trying to acomplish.

In regards to NG being about reducing canned animations- it was documented many times throughout the years that one thing they were excited about was ridding the game of canned animations - you no longer had "mario" running. Or issues where you call a spin move and you would automatically pick up 2 yards BC the computer couldnt interact with the animation until it ran its course. The idea was to allow animations to be broken due to user control at any point and to allow the defense to interupt any type of animation that the ball carrier was using. This was one of the major issues with Madden on CG systems as users would simply look to "trigger" specific animations as once they were triggered the nothing could be done to counteract them. For example a HUGE problem was the use of the stiff arm. When running you could simply throw a stiff arm out and it was trigger the stiff arm animation regardless if they were actually stiff arming them or not. Truck stick was the same problem as well as spin moves. All these canned animations on CG allowed for cheap yards to be gained. On NG we no longer have those problems as defenders are able to break the animation at any point based on the phyisics of the game.

Again the number of bad snaps I'm experiance is 5 or so a game based upon the 30-40 plays I run in a 4 minute game. As you were saying bring that up to the NFL average of 115-130 plays called a game we are talking between 15-20 terrible snaps a game? Is that legit? I would be ok with the bad snaps if there was 1-2 bad snaps a game. Sometimes though (seems like luck opposed to center skill rating) I get upwards to 10 on rare occasions.

As far as labeling my a tournament player...I think thats unfair. I go to tournaments, yes. I play in online leagues, yes. I play in my own offline franchise, yes. I play online games, yes.

I'm a Madden player.

[permanent1]

If you play in tournaments at all even just once in a while you are a tournament player,yes you are ALSO a madden player but still a tournament player.

[Redcapedwonder]

I like the auto drop back feature, but I do have issues with outside pressure some times. I think they should keep the auto drop back, but change the AI of the blockers to help. It'd be cool if they added different drop plays to different plays, i.e. 1 step drop, 2 step drop, 3 step drop ect....

[Bellsprout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Redcapedwonder

I like the auto drop back feature, but I do have issues with outside pressure some times. I think they should keep the auto drop back, but change the AI of the blockers to help. It'd be cool if they added different drop plays to different plays, i.e. 1 step drop, 2 step drop, 3 step drop ect....

I'm pretty sure quick slants are 3 step drops and deep routes are 5 steppers.

I have yet to see a 1 step, though.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

Bad Snaps are a good thing. Forced drop back in the shot gun isn't that good, but under center it isl.You are only forced to take three steps under center and you can ALWAYS throw out of it ala Kurt Warner, you just can't be a cheese ball and scramble the very second you touch the ball. Sorry gibs, but this is something we may never agree on. It's far more realistic the way it is now. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it a bad feature. If had never seen one of your videos, I would deduce from the bold part that you were a tournament player, and... you are. So it's no surprise to me you are against this.

Well I understand this feature for online is some what useful. But why should Ian or anyone else care how we do it for offline play agaist the AI. I say if Ian wants this feature in. Give people the option to turn it off when playing agaist the AI. Because honestly allowing someone to run with the ball after after snap instead of force dropback passing. Pretty much Balace things out when it comes to try and avoiding people who Nano blitz all the time. Bottom line they can keep this option online use but give fans a option to turn it off. It gets annnoying alot.

[PGaither84]

bad snaps are part of the NFL. Did any see the MNF game?

What is up with some of you? How is this a bad thing? "IOh no, a bad snap" Are you going to complain that incomplete passes are a bad thing to have in the game, or tackles? Shaking my head.