Is madden building on a broken foundation?

[TheDelta]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbd345

I love madden but i believe the technology is holding them back.

I don't buy it, not for one second. Just look around and see what other games can do with the same technology. If you had the money to get back to the drawing board, draw up a whole new engine with enough manpower behind it, I'm absolutely sure the game could be a LOT better with current gen technology.

But as long as there's an exclusive license and thereby a pretty much guaranteed monopoly for Madden, that money will never be there, so the devs have to make the best out of what they have.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by ScriptOhio

You have to remember that they are programming on hardware that was outdated within a month of when it was released. Not to mention the intricacies of programming 22 players on the field to do each task in a specific manner takes up a ton of resources.

APF did 22 players on the field AND realtime refs AND realtime sidelines (I'd guess) because they took the approach of allocating resources appropriately for such things. They were kinda doing that last generation w/2K4 & 2K5. It's obvious such things can be done with the "limited" hardware resources available. Tiburon seems to have taken the approach placing a disproportionate amount of resources into the 22 players on the field, and the result is what we see today. We're seeing developers across the board make some pretty spectacular games this generation, on both systems. Hardware resources aren't the problem.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

APF did 22 players on the field AND realtime refs AND realtime sidelines (I'd guess) because they took the approach of allocating resources appropriately for such things. They were kinda doing that last generation w/2K4 & 2K5. It's obvious such things can be done with the "limited" hardware resources available. Tiburon seems to have taken the approach placing a disproportionate amount of resources into the 22 players on the field, and the result is what we see today. We're seeing developers across the board make some pretty spectacular games this generation, on both systems. Hardware resources aren't the problem.

As you said, depends on what they spend the most time in. Ian explained a few years ago with a huge thread here that if they allocated resources on the sidelines, then they would lose the graphics on the field.

Catch-22.

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

As you said, depends on what they spend the most time in. Ian explained a few years ago with a huge thread here that if they allocated resources on the sidelines, then they would lose the graphics on the field. Catch-22.

Not buying that at all either and other games besides sports games are doing and doing it well. Games with populations of people doing there own thing and games with numerous things going on thruought the entire game.

Lair, Gears, God of War, Ninja Gaiden, NBA games, MLB series, COD, Infamous, KZ2 & 3, Resistance and numerous other titles that maybe console exclusive or what not.

The crowd isnt doing anything spectacular in the game to warrant a memory or graphical downgrade, its been 2.5D sprites from the get go.

Sidelines have been zombiefied for ages.

And features are always missing from one year to the next.

I would rather just take HD versions of whats on the PS2 right about now and those games have way more than what we have on superior hardware.

I'll be to old by the time we do have a madden on current systems with all the bells and whistles, but why cant stuff be DLC like most games do now days to add features or modes into the games? Instead there artist are too busy drawing and crafting things that never make it into the game like those "mythical stadiums" and stuff.

They need some new artist in there for sure and maybe need to use some type of new tech to get the oline/dline interaction down better than it is.

Madden should have been the pinnacle of sports right now imo, but it just falls short on so many fronts. Its like the dev teams scraps there "last years list of features and things that made it into madden".

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

As you said, depends on what they spend the most time in. Ian explained a few years ago with a huge thread here that if they allocated resources on the sidelines, then they would lose the graphics on the field. Catch-22.

And? It's no different than working within a budget and not spending beyond your means. Which it seems is pretty much what every other developer out there is doing. To me it sounds like a person spending the bulk of their budget on clothes then complaining they don't have enough left for food. The first few NBA Live's this generation were going down the same path, placing a disproportionate amount of emphasis on the players on the court than on the environment surrounding the players - they quickly changed that tune primarily because of what their competition was doing. I'm pretty sure we'd have seen the same from Madden if they had to deal with similar circumstances. While Madden is certainly a pretty game, it's not so beautiful that it's other visual issues like animations and lack of peripheral detail can be ignored.

[bkrich83]

Tbh of all my issues with Madden graphics aren't one of them. I'd rather they spent more resources on the players. I could care less what the crowd or the players on the sideline look like.

If I had to chose I am glad they emphasize on the field graphics. Graphically the biggest issue for me is their color palette particularly the darker colors like navy blue or emerald green. They tend to look bland or washed out.

Now if we want to talk X's and O's or franchise mode I got a pile of gripes to unload.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

I would rather just take HD versions of whats on the PS2 right about now and those games have way more than what we have on superior hardware. .

I wouldn't. I despised the previous gen of Madden

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

And? It's no different than working within a budget and not spending beyond your means. Which it seems is pretty much what every other developer out there is doing. To me it sounds like a person spending the bulk of their budget on clothes then complaining they don't have enough left for food. The first few NBA Live's this generation were going down the same path, placing a disproportionate amount of emphasis on the players on the court than on the environment surrounding the players - they quickly changed that tune primarily because of what their competition was doing. I'm pretty sure we'd have seen the same from Madden if they had to deal with similar circumstances. While Madden is certainly a pretty game, it's not so beautiful that it's other visual issues like animations and lack of peripheral detail can be ignored.

I agree with most of this, but you can't ignore the improvements made from 11 to 12, either.

And Smoke, if you don't like the direction Madden is headed, then don't buy it or rent it.

I don't purchase more than 2 to 3 games/year and not any outside the sports arena, so, I'll need to take your word for it about the other games. I have 0 opinion on those.

I feel strongly that the broadcast cameras will be enough to hold my interest.