Is madden building on a broken foundation?

[Lakers 24 7]

Let me back track a little bit, and go back to what I said earlier. Forget I ever mentioned simulation vs realism. If you're trying to simulate QB play then I agree those things need to implemented. I understand you guys want the important positions to be simulated, in which case all of your points are absolutely right.

However, I think the games intent is to simulate a game of football (in a very broad view), which is an entirely different perspective. Best comparison again, RTS to FPS. Both can be simulations, it just depends on what you're trying to simulate. What perspective are you after...

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lakers 24/7

This is why I'm trying to say that we need to distinguish between realism and simulation, they're not one in the same. I'm not at all arguing that the passing mechanics are realistic. Sure, in a literal sense they absolutely are arcade. The point is, you can have the most realistic passing mechanics possible, with a first person point of view, but that still doesn't make the game a simulation. Like I've said, put those ideal mechanics in Blitz. Is Blitz now a simulation? That's why the argument for simulation is very black and white. Either you're getting realistic outcomes from the input variables, or you're not. That's also why you can have a simulation, but not necessarily a ton of realism. My 2d interface could better simulate what happens between a 3-4 cover 2 shell and an I-form, than a glitzy game that looks realistic, but fails to simulate strategic principles of football. I also, think you're completely off base in saying that an RTS can't be a simulation. Like I've said, it all depends on how you're viewing the game, unless you want that first person perspective then they can be a simulation. If they weren't then the Army would have no use for the games I mentioned. When the Army war games, and tries to predict how different conflicts will play out. You think they're running a simulation that depicts the viewpoint of each individual soldier? Of course not right.. Yet, the data and outcome they're getting is still realistic.

I'll tackle the easiest point first.

I never said that an RTS couldn't be sim. I just said that they are not advertised as sims so I wouldn't complain about the view. When I play Starcraft, I have no expectation of simulation considering I am using an alien race to combat another, and colossal facilities and structures are created from nothing but crystals in a matter of seconds.

As far as the gov't using an RTS to "sim" some real world scenario, going back to the definition of sim, not every aspect needs to be realistic, only key elements, so if the gov't thinks that enough key elements are recreated realistically for their tastes, more power to them.

As for the first part of your post, I'm inclined to drop it at this point, because it isn't going anywhere. You might be perfectly happy to call a game a sim that has nailed every aspect of Football, but still has this current passing mechanic, but I am not. I am not saying, and never said, that if they made the passing game realistic that the whole game becomes a sim, so I don't know where you are going with the Blitz example. All I am saying is that as long as one of the most important elements of the game is totally unrealistic, then it isn't a sim in my opinion. I don't care if the stats or outcomes turn out realistic in the end. I will just agree to disagree.

Again, it isn't black and white.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lakers 24/7

Let me back track a little bit, and go back to what I said earlier. Forget I ever mentioned simulation vs realism. If you're trying to simulate QB play then I agree those things need to implemented. I understand you guys want the important positions to be simulated, in which case all of your points are absolutely right. However, I think the games intent is to simulate a game of football (in a very broad view), which is an entirely different perspective. Best comparison again, RTS to FPS. Both can be simulations, it just depends on what you're trying to simulate. What perspective are you after...

You are entitled to your interpretation. I don't share it though.

Like I said before, I just want realism added everywhere that it is possible to be added, and I want what is currently in the game to become more realistic than it currently is.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[WhiteMan22]

Don't care about all the hate Madden gets year in and yer out.

I'll admit, I bought it last year without looking at any info and I was just wasn't going to buy it in general. I just had the money, bought it, and very much enjoyed it

This year, I've been reading more info and I'm getting pumped. I never liked online franchise to begin with since I don't got many friends who enjoy sports game like I. And it's very hard to get into a franchise by going through the random lobbies and join people's parties.

I am getting NCAA 12 opening day along with this game. I need my NFL fix and Madden does it for me whenever I need it.