EA's new attempt at replicating player vision.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

....I like Big Fn Deal's idea for the user. Maybe Brady gets the current God-view, but Josh Johnson has "holes" in the field (almost like the fog of war in a rts). That would be interesting. Would make running with the ball interesting too. Though I thought the vision cone was an interesting idea that needed refinement, not removal, and this vision system they came up with is going in that direction, almost like a cone for every player.

Not that it really matters anyway, but just to be clear, this is a better breakdown of what I am suggesting.

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I am very glad to see this topic being rehashed again and hope the Madden developers take note to everyone's ideas since they frequent these forums. I agree with the OP about bringing the gameplay view down to field level, not just for QB's but every player/position. I think there are many ways to implement the head turning mechanic but it seems like EA wants Madden to innovate, not alienate. So I think a good way to control the head turn while staying true to the traditional passing, is with a revised version of the double tap system from the old QB vision. Instead of a displayed vision cone in god-view, a User controlled Brady literally would have a wider, more zoomed out gameplay field level view than Grossman, that would have a more zoomed in, locked on one receiver or spot on the field type view. User controlling Brady, would visually have more potential pass icons in view range and require less double tapping, which is needed to look at receiver's outside his view. So Brady looking down the middle of the field could potentially encompass viewing 3-4 receivers icons at once, depending on their routes and only have to press the corresponding button once, as usual, to pass to any of those receivers. However, Grossman would have a much more limited, zoomed in, tunnel vision like view, needing to progressively tap once to look at each receiver, then a second time to pass as usual. I would also like to see custom controller button mapping added for the receiver icons so you can assign a specific icon to a specific player if you choose. Like, X-Santana Moss/B-Jabar Gaffney/Y-Fred Davis,etc, so looking and passing would become an easier exercise through muscle memory/repetition like real life. Along with being able to assign a "dumpoff" button that only requires one button press, regardless of where the QB's is looking, for quick screen passes and passes very close to the QB. To simulate the CPU "reading the QB's eyes" the actual "vision cone" should be internal, "under the hood" for the CPU AI to utilize and react to like this explains; http://www.operationsports.com/forum...er-vision.html However, there needs to be an actual QB in-game head turn action that plays out so User controlled defenders in a position to have a gameplay view of the QB, can literally try to read the eyes.

[KBLover]

That would be pretty sweet. Would definitely change the dynamic for the user. I do worry about it vs CPU. Head turn would work, but hopefully the CPU QB would have to use it, and how would you simulate vision based on player by position on defense? If I'm controlling Revis, how would it be different than if I'm using some 6th string CB?

For that matter, all the positions, though offense is easier to visualize how this would work vs switching on defense and all of that.

[bigfnjoe96]

Holy Thread resurrection Batman...

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Screw vision cone but instead imagine actually having a different field level view when User controlling Tom Brady than User controlling Rex Grossman.

I think that depends on the experience the user desires though. For me personally, I'm opposed to different camera views for different QBs. I've heard the idea before, but I feel there's better ways to distinguish QBs than manipulating camera views.

That's the beauty of this system IMO. It would distinguish players, but it accomplishes that under the hood.

Certainly I would want to see the user-controlled QB affected, but for someone who doesn't desire a field level experience, I'm not sure how to accomplish that.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

That would be pretty sweet. Would definitely change the dynamic for the user. I do worry about it vs CPU. Head turn would work, but hopefully the CPU QB would have to use it, and how would you simulate vision based on player by position on defense? If I'm controlling Revis, how would it be different than if I'm using some 6th string CB? For that matter, all the positions, though offense is easier to visualize how this would work vs switching on defense and all of that.

I imagine it along the lines of how defender lock works in NCAA and how I figure defense is played in Backbreaker from that view, though I have never played that game. The funny thing is, that I have put way more thought into this than necessary so here goes. lol

The view would work the same way for defenders with the zoom/viewing radius being dictated by AWR and what the player is doing. For example Ray Lewis would have a wide view when playing defense but if he was to intercept a pass, his view would become zoomed in/smaller as a returner, maybe being based on BCV at that point. Same thing for CPU players that intercept passes or that have to become blockers after a turnover and vice versa for User or CPU offenses players that have to become tacklers, with their vision/view being dependent on how skilled they are at whatever they are currently attempting.

It would add another layer of difference between great CB's that are dangerous at returning INT's, great kick/punt returners, skilled special team blockers/tacklers, all elite BCV players when getting the ball in their hands, great pulling Olineman vs great zone blockers, good run blockers vs good pass blockers, etc. It would make a clear distinction between elite players with high AWR at their position along with that same player at a different position with lower AWR and that player at the same position but performing a different action.

So Tom Brady's view dropping back to pass, would differ from his view if pulling the ball down to run, a wily vet like WR Hines Ward would have a wider view for route running than running after the catch and vice versa for a receiver like Devon Hester. Also, a RB with high AWR/pass blocking, low BCV would have wide vision to pick a hole prior to the handoff or for picking up blockers on a pass play but zoomed in/smaller view when carrying the ball and vice versa for a RB with low AWR/poor blocking skills but high BCV.

Evey player would be inherently unique whether CPU or User controlled and there would be actual User skilled involved in utilizing lesser players. The possibilities for this type system are seemingly endless, imo. lol

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I think that depends on the experience the user desires though. For me personally, I'm opposed to different camera views for different QBs. I've heard the idea before, but I feel there's better ways to distinguish QBs than manipulating camera views. That's the beauty of this system IMO. It would distinguish players, but it accomplishes that under the hood. Certainly I would want to see the user-controlled QB affected, but for someone who doesn't desire a field level experience, I'm not sure how to accomplish that.

In that case, implement the system but still allow Users to play from classic view. From that view it wculd work like the old vision cone, minus the visually displayed cone. Maybe with highlighted cursors/icons on the receiver(s) in the QB's view and throwing to non-highlighted/unviewed receivers, results in an accuracy hit like before.

Now for the other positions in classic view, I would like to see similar inherent ratings penalties and animations, for Users attempting actions beyond that players scope. Like if User kick returning with a player that has elite speed and acceleration but low return AWR and/or BCV, that should result in that player stumbling/falling over when blindly cutting back and having a hard time getting through gaps. Same thing for all other position, with the fact that the User being able to see everything, not negating each in-game player/position limitations.

[dfos81]

EA/Madden has had the technology with the Vision cone in the previous gen.
I hope they bring it back and just remove the cone, that way the only way guys really know a qbs vision, is by labbing and getting more reps. Just like a Qb does IRL.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by dfos81

EA/Madden has had the technology with the Vision cone in the previous gen. I hope they bring it back and just remove the cone, that way the only way guys really know a qbs vision, is by labbing and getting more reps. Just like a Qb does IRL.

I agree with this, at least bring it back without the displayed "cone". Like I stated earlier, maybe have a highlighted indicator under the receiver in the QB's view, to replace the cone. Then, for online and CPU v Hum games, have the highlight initially only show to the offense, until the QB has looked at the receiver for too long, maybe 3-4 seconds, without passing. That would simulate a QB staring down a receiver, potentially allowing a defender to get a bead on where the pass is going and allow for a QB to intentionally "look off" defenders.

For Hum v Hum games, on the same console, have a bluff mode where every receiver has a different color highlight displayed on the field, with the offense choosing in the playcall screen or LOS which color designates the viewed receiver and have all the colors change as the QB views a different receiver. Again, if the QB stares down a receiver, then all the decoy highlights disappear, showing the defense the viewed receiver.

Also, I would love to see the "pump fake", briefly bring up a ball spot cursor, just like when a pass is actually thrown, to really "sell it" to over aggressive User defenders.