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bkrich83 · 09-05-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

MrScarface said:
Here is the reason you didn't review Madden. You waited to get ESPN to know where to rate Madden. You didn't want to give Madden too high of a score. Madden will come in about 2-4 points lower than ESPN. That's a sure bet. You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you (Sega sends you free copies, EA doesn't). Don't sit here and claim that doesnt matter....we were not born yesterday.

You realize that Madden has been consistently rated higher here by our reviewers right?? No matter who gets the free copy. BTW, I am doing the Madden review, and I didn't get a free copy of ESPN, I had to pay for mine, nor am I paid by OS, I do it for free. I have absoulutely nothing to gain, nor does Aaron, who is doing the other half of our Madden double take, for giving Madden a higer score than ESPN. As a matter of fact, at this point I don't even know what score ESPN got here, and I don't really like scores anyway, they are completely subjective. When I review games, I like to point out the sterths and weaknesses of a game as the main thing, and really don't focus on some subjective number between 1 and 100 as much.

PopoWRX · 09-05-2003, 11:02 AM

Wow, you guys getting your undies all tied up about a review? C'mon now, if you are a diehard fan of Madden you will buy the game and like it regardless right? So why all the fuss of a review of a game which you already have bought and like? I just don't get it.

But for people like me who haven't bought it yet and are straddling on the fence, a review by OpSports will go a long way in making my decision.

I play Fever 2005 right now, looking into whether to get ESPN or Madden as a secondary game.

ohiost · 09-05-2003, 11:43 AM

I have both as well. I like both. I totally agree with the running animation problem. I can not believe this hasn't been addressed. I also don't like how slow the pace of play is in ESPN. The pace of play in real football has been a problem the league has been addressing for years. We don't need to drag this issue into a video game for goodness sake for the sake of "realism". One big issue I have with ESPN Football is pass coverage. People can defend and make excuses all they want, but the bottom line is that it is far from good. DB's and cornerbacks simply do not make a play on the ball in the air unless it's thrown right at them. You shouldn't feel helpless against the pass and I'll bet I'm not the only one that sees this. There is also a weird dynamic going on whereby backs break two three and four tackles almost every play, but receivers struggle to get any extra yardage unless they are wide open. I think ESPN is improving, But I also think that they have a long way to go in alot of areas. They get a lot of praise because they are newer and people want them to challenge Madden so Madden will quit resting on it's laurels and put out a better product. There's some truth to to this line of thinking, but bottom line is this IMHO: This years Madden is a really, really great game if you take the time to implement the new offensive and defensive stratedgies properly. They fixed a lot of issues that used to really bother me like YAC. One area they need to address is offensive and defensive line interaction. ESPN shines in this area, but I think Maddens running game is better than it has been and next year I expect at total overhaul in this area. Sometimes it's like the new girlfriend, wife comparison. New girlfriend, fresh, exciting, getting a lot of Ooohhs and Awwwss. Wife, steady, reliable, under appreciated. We tend to forget that: That same wife was at one time the new girlfriend and still deserves our appreciation and admiration.

Bacardi151 · 09-05-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

MrScarface said:
Here is the reason you didn't review Madden. You waited to get ESPN to know where to rate Madden. You didn't want to give Madden too high of a score. Madden will come in about 2-4 points lower than ESPN. That's a sure bet. You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you (Sega sends you free copies, EA doesn't). Don't sit here and claim that doesnt matter....we were not born yesterday.

Now who the hell got a free copy other than the owner of the site? You can bring up all the damn conspiracy theories you want, but i will let you know that you are wrong. You are so wrong that its not even worth regurgatating the same crap over and over again. Some of the guys are right, we dont have a need to defend ourselves from 'conspiracies'. You dont like it? you can leave, we dont force you to stay. Go hang out someplace else. Apparently nothing we do will ever make it right? so why be here. Why put yourself thru the heartache of the OS nazi mods and the kickbacks we get from sega to bash EA?

GO

Really

Just leave...

Kanobi · 09-05-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

i3man said:
Madden just looks and feels like football should, ESPN feels like Mech Warriors in the shape of football players. The ESPN players are so robotic and lack the natural movements and fluidity of EA players in Madden and NCAA.

LMAO! Madden's animations are as robotic as you can get. The players stop completely, stand straight up, and turn...just to change direction. They don't even interact realistically in Madden. Every body basically carems off each other. They stare Blankly straight ahead and hardly ever seem aware of the action around them by turning their heads. My God! are you Blind! Madden players move like their under some kind of Happy-Happy trance or somethin.

Lets not talk about the Gliding the OL do when they're "patrolling" the pocket. They don't even move their feet at all. They just get in that Hunched pose and Glide across the grass. What the Hell is that???!!!

What about the damn Neck-breaker Head tracking?!?! It looks horrible.

The overdone Momentum is ridiculous! That kills the running animation itself. Plus Madden's tackling engine is dated. Why should a defender have to wait until the damn ball carrier is done breaking another tackle before he can take a stab at bringing the ballcarrier down? WTF is THAT???!!

NFL2k3's Tackling was Better than Madden 04's!

Man If we Had some Gifs of Madden and ESPNFL running side by side you'd see the truth. Madden is the robotic moving game...not ESPNFL.

Man...I try not to get involved with this Madden v ESPNFL stuff...But I gotta call Bull**** when I see it.

The ONLY aspect that madden beats ESPNFL IMO is the Qb passing mechanics/animations...but everythingelse? Collison detection, blocking (run &pass) tackling, defensive play, playcalling, etc...Madden 04 gets Killed by ESPNFL.

Bottomline.

onetonmartin · 09-05-2003, 12:06 PM

Whoa, looks like Madden fans are a little threatened. Just chill...I have them both and like them both. But while Madden takes steps forward every year...ESPN takes leaps & bounds forward. I acknowlege it & the OS guys do too. What's the better game...it's up to you. What looks better? c'mon...you are comparing a Lexus to a Saturn. Gameplay feel is totally different. After I bought ESPN this year it felt REALLY wierd. Madden has a different feel, it is made by a different company...it has different physics. I warm up to ESPN and now I know It's feel. Madden fans, if you are not going to like the reviews, just stay in the old M-cave and keep to yourselves about the topic of reviews. After all, you are positive about Madden being superior aren't you? What do you care about what the rest of the world thinks. Don't knock the game it you haven't tried it whole-heartedly...I would feel cheated too if ESPN only added "EA Theme Park" to my game and gave me the same on field product. I think it is funny how EA put's false ideas into their gamers. The sign with "The Critics Have Spoken .. Madden is #1" was released a week before it's competition was even released to the public. Madden's sells are tops every year (Madden players favorite & only comeback). Of course, It is released on XBOX,PC,PS1,PS2,GC,& GBA...I would hope they sold the most. It's like comparing McDonald's sales to In N Out Burger. Which is a better product? My bottom line is that I never realized how close-minded the Madden audience was until I took a step back as a new Madden/ESPN fan. I'm going to keep giving EA it's credit as a true innovator for as long as it continues to innovate. (& I don't think they will ever stop.) I love the game & it's unique features. However, I lost interest in the owner mode in 2 weeks. IMO, it made the game seem watered down...it "switches gears" too much. I can't say Madden has bad graphics, they are great, but ESPN is cleaner and look more like the real thing. that is what I wan't ... the REAL thing, don't you?. Gameplay is even .. just 2 different styles.
anyways, If you are mad about ratings & OS's views.. get used to it. Because EA has a big thorn in it's side & it's called Visual Concepts... & it's no secret anymore.

ATrillionaire · 09-05-2003, 12:16 PM

Here's a question. Why do people, who own a game and like the game, worry about when reviews are coming out? Unless they work for the company that makes the game, they shouldn't care.

by the way, ESPN and NCAA 2004 are awesome!!! No reviews needed

bkrich83 · 09-05-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

ATrillionaire said:
Here's a question. Why do people, who own a game and like the game, worry about when reviews are coming out? Unless they work for the company that makes the game, they shouldn't care.

by the way, ESPN and NCAA 2004 are awesome!!! No reviews needed

Such a good point, on both things.

09-05-2003, 10:38 AM	#41
bkrich83 Need A Life OVR: 64 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: So. Cal Posts: 70,885 Blog Entries: 125	Re: Madden is still king. Quote: *MrScarface said:* Here is the reason you didn't review Madden. You waited to get ESPN to know where to rate Madden. You didn't want to give Madden too high of a score. Madden will come in about 2-4 points lower than ESPN. That's a sure bet. You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you (Sega sends you free copies, EA doesn't). Don't sit here and claim that doesnt matter....we were not born yesterday. You realize that Madden has been consistently rated higher here by our reviewers right?? No matter who gets the free copy. BTW, I am doing the Madden review, and I didn't get a free copy of ESPN, I had to pay for mine, nor am I paid by OS, I do it for free. I have absoulutely nothing to gain, nor does Aaron, who is doing the other half of our Madden double take, for giving Madden a higer score than ESPN. As a matter of fact, at this point I don't even know what score ESPN got here, and I don't really like scores anyway, they are completely subjective. When I review games, I like to point out the sterths and weaknesses of a game as the main thing, and really don't focus on some subjective number between 1 and 100 as much.

09-05-2003, 11:02 AM	#42
PopoWRX MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Grand Prairie, Texas	Re: Madden is still king. Wow, you guys getting your undies all tied up about a review? C'mon now, if you are a diehard fan of Madden you will buy the game and like it regardless right? So why all the fuss of a review of a game which you already have bought and like? I just don't get it. But for people like me who haven't bought it yet and are straddling on the fence, a review by OpSports will go a long way in making my decision. I play Fever 2005 right now, looking into whether to get ESPN or Madden as a secondary game.

09-05-2003, 11:43 AM	#43
ohiost Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Feb 2003	Re: Madden is still king. I have both as well. I like both. I totally agree with the running animation problem. I can not believe this hasn't been addressed. I also don't like how slow the pace of play is in ESPN. The pace of play in real football has been a problem the league has been addressing for years. We don't need to drag this issue into a video game for goodness sake for the sake of "realism". One big issue I have with ESPN Football is pass coverage. People can defend and make excuses all they want, but the bottom line is that it is far from good. DB's and cornerbacks simply do not make a play on the ball in the air unless it's thrown right at them. You shouldn't feel helpless against the pass and I'll bet I'm not the only one that sees this. There is also a weird dynamic going on whereby backs break two three and four tackles almost every play, but receivers struggle to get any extra yardage unless they are wide open. I think ESPN is improving, But I also think that they have a long way to go in alot of areas. They get a lot of praise because they are newer and people want them to challenge Madden so Madden will quit resting on it's laurels and put out a better product. There's some truth to to this line of thinking, but bottom line is this IMHO: This years Madden is a really, really great game if you take the time to implement the new offensive and defensive stratedgies properly. They fixed a lot of issues that used to really bother me like YAC. One area they need to address is offensive and defensive line interaction. ESPN shines in this area, but I think Maddens running game is better than it has been and next year I expect at total overhaul in this area. Sometimes it's like the new girlfriend, wife comparison. New girlfriend, fresh, exciting, getting a lot of Ooohhs and Awwwss. Wife, steady, reliable, under appreciated. We tend to forget that: That same wife was at one time the new girlfriend and still deserves our appreciation and admiration.

09-05-2003, 12:00 PM	#44
Bacardi151 *t f y*r lmnt Dnny OVR: 19* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, FL Posts: 3,114	Re: Madden is still king. Quote: *MrScarface said:* Here is the reason you didn't review Madden. You waited to get ESPN to know where to rate Madden. You didn't want to give Madden too high of a score. Madden will come in about 2-4 points lower than ESPN. That's a sure bet. You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you (Sega sends you free copies, EA doesn't). Don't sit here and claim that doesnt matter....we were not born yesterday. Now who the hell got a free copy other than the owner of the site? You can bring up all the damn conspiracy theories you want, but i will let you know that you are wrong. You are so wrong that its not even worth regurgatating the same crap over and over again. Some of the guys are right, we dont have a need to defend ourselves from 'conspiracies'. You dont like it? you can leave, we dont force you to stay. Go hang out someplace else. Apparently nothing we do will ever make it right? so why be here. Why put yourself thru the heartache of the OS nazi mods and the kickbacks we get from sega to bash EA? GO Really Just leave...

09-05-2003, 12:01 PM	#45
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: Madden is still king. Quote: *i3man said:* Madden just looks and feels like football should, ESPN feels like Mech Warriors in the shape of football players. The ESPN players are so robotic and lack the natural movements and fluidity of EA players in Madden and NCAA. LMAO! Madden's animations are as robotic as you can get. The players stop completely, stand straight up, and turn...just to change direction. They don't even interact realistically in Madden. Every body basically carems off each other. They stare Blankly straight ahead and hardly ever seem aware of the action around them by turning their heads. My God! are you Blind! Madden players move like their under some kind of Happy-Happy trance or somethin. Lets not talk about the Gliding the OL do when they're "patrolling" the pocket. They don't even move their feet at all. They just get in that Hunched pose and Glide across the grass. What the Hell is that???!!! What about the damn Neck-breaker Head tracking?!?! It looks horrible. The overdone Momentum is ridiculous! That kills the running animation itself. Plus Madden's tackling engine is dated. Why should a defender have to wait until the damn ball carrier is done breaking another tackle before he can take a stab at bringing the ballcarrier down? WTF is THAT???!! NFL2k3's Tackling was Better than Madden 04's! Man If we Had some Gifs of Madden and ESPNFL running side by side you'd see the truth. Madden is the robotic moving game...not ESPNFL. Man...I try not to get involved with this Madden v ESPNFL stuff...But I gotta call Bull**** when I see it. The ONLY aspect that madden beats ESPNFL IMO is the Qb passing mechanics/animations...but everythingelse? Collison detection, blocking (run &pass) tackling, defensive play, playcalling, etc...Madden 04 gets Killed by ESPNFL. Bottomline.

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09-05-2003, 12:06 PM	#46
onetonmartin Think Different OVR: 9 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sacramento,CA Posts: 1,040	Re: Madden is still king. Whoa, looks like Madden fans are a little threatened. Just chill...I have them both and like them both. But while Madden takes steps forward every year...ESPN takes leaps & bounds forward. I acknowlege it & the OS guys do too. What's the better game...it's up to you. What looks better? c'mon...you are comparing a Lexus to a Saturn. Gameplay feel is totally different. After I bought ESPN this year it felt REALLY wierd. Madden has a different feel, it is made by a different company...it has different physics. I warm up to ESPN and now I know It's feel. Madden fans, if you are not going to like the reviews, just stay in the old M-cave and keep to yourselves about the topic of reviews. After all, you are positive about Madden being superior aren't you? What do you care about what the rest of the world thinks. Don't knock the game it you haven't tried it whole-heartedly...I would feel cheated too if ESPN only added "EA Theme Park" to my game and gave me the same on field product. I think it is funny how EA put's false ideas into their gamers. The sign with "The Critics Have Spoken .. Madden is #1" was released a week before it's competition was even released to the public. Madden's sells are tops every year (Madden players favorite & only comeback). Of course, It is released on XBOX,PC,PS1,PS2,GC,& GBA...I would hope they sold the most. It's like comparing McDonald's sales to In N Out Burger. Which is a better product? My bottom line is that I never realized how close-minded the Madden audience was until I took a step back as a new Madden/ESPN fan. I'm going to keep giving EA it's credit as a true innovator for as long as it continues to innovate. (& I don't think they will ever stop.) I love the game & it's unique features. However, I lost interest in the owner mode in 2 weeks. IMO, it made the game seem watered down...it "switches gears" too much. I can't say Madden has bad graphics, they are great, but ESPN is cleaner and look more like the real thing. that is what I wan't ... the REAL thing, don't you?. Gameplay is even .. just 2 different styles. anyways, If you are mad about ratings & OS's views.. get used to it. Because EA has a big thorn in it's side & it's called Visual Concepts... & it's no secret anymore.

09-05-2003, 12:16 PM	#47
ATrillionaire Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: Aug 2003	Re: Madden is still king. Here's a question. Why do people, who own a game and like the game, worry about when reviews are coming out? Unless they work for the company that makes the game, they shouldn't care. by the way, ESPN and NCAA 2004 are awesome!!! No reviews needed

09-05-2003, 12:18 PM	#48
bkrich83 Need A Life OVR: 64 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: So. Cal Posts: 70,885 Blog Entries: 125	Re: Madden is still king. Quote: *ATrillionaire said:* Here's a question. Why do people, who own a game and like the game, worry about when reviews are coming out? Unless they work for the company that makes the game, they shouldn't care. by the way, ESPN and NCAA 2004 are awesome!!! No reviews needed Such a good point, on both things.

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Madden is still king.