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[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

A lot of people have already said things I want to say, so to keep it brief, I will ask you to compare the work EA has done so far on the Madden franchise to the work other companies have done on their titles. All I have to do is look through my CD case of 360 games, and I will see hit after hit: Dragon Age: Origins Mass Effect Mass Effect 2 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Fallout 3 Fallout New Vegas Halo 3 Halo Reach Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare CoD Modern Warfare 2 Bad Company 2 L.A. Noire Grand Theft Auto IV After all of that, I am not even counting other games I personally enjoy, such as IL 2 Strumovik, Mafia II, Left 4 Dead, Portal & Portal 2... and we haven't even talked about spots games yet. What about NBA 2k10 & 2k11? Finally, what about the game which shall not me named? If I were asked to make a list of my favorite games on the 360 [which i kind of already have,] I would have to place Madden near, if not AT the bottom of this list. Now, who knows where Madden 12 will rank in. Franchise is my favorite part of the game and this is the first year we are getting a real overhaul of that mode, so who knows? However, even with franchise improvements, I don't think Madden will push it's way in to my top 5 or even 10 because it still has so many glaring weaknesses. In conclusion, you may ask "Then why do you play Madden?" Well, it's the only NFL game on the 360, I love the sport of Football, and I still enjoy the game... I just don't think the Madden NFL product is nearly as good as it could be.

Good comparison, until you get to the fact that none of those are yearly releases, some of them were in development for 2,3, and yes even 4 years.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Good comparison, until you get to the fact that none of those are yearly releases, some of them were in development for 2,3, and yes even 4 years.

Call of Duty is a yearly release. They utilize 2 alternating in house studios to get the game out yearly, but there is nothing that prohibits EA from doing this.

Assassins creed is also yearly, and they only use one studio. I could also mention FIFA, NHL, and NBA 2K, but that would probably be flagged for piling on lol.

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Call of Duty is a yearly release. They utilize 2 alternating in house studios to get the game out yearly, but there is nothing that prohibits EA from doing this. Assassins creed is also yearly, and they only use one studio. I could also mention FIFA, NHL, and NBA 2K, but that would probably be flagged for piling on lol.

Your right call of duty is a yearly release and its in 2 different studios so basically each studio gets about 20 months of development time. Madden gets 8 or maybe 9 months of undivided development time each cycle. The other games you listed weren't on the quoted list. The quoted list is what I was commenting on. That's not piling on that's a personal foul for no Attention to detail. :P

Did you notice that one of the games you personally mentioned, FIFA, well the guy who's direction and ideas that made that game great...uh where is he now? That's right Madden. You will see his influence for Madden 13.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Good comparison, until you get to the fact that none of those are yearly releases, some of them were in development for 2,3, and yes even 4 years.

And yet that is a terrible excuse. Madden is in constant development. Forget "It's in the game." Forget "Everything you see on Sunday." Forget "True to the game." The real motto of Madden is, and always has been this generation, "Wait until E3/the demo/the retail copy/the title update/the second patch/next year..."

Between our interactions here at OS, reading blogs, and my [much appreciated] experience at community day for Madden 11, I have learned a lot about how the game is actually made and of the people who make it. In general, EA knows what's "wrong" with their game. EA knows what the fans want [both the hardcore and casual fans.] If I had to break it down, I would say "the problem" is time, money, and talent. From what I have seen, there are talented people at EA... and some not-so-talented people. For example, Josh Looman is "the man" at his job. On the other hand, I am very unimpressed with the work I have seen from the audio department throughout the history of the franchise [not just this generation.]

EA knows that we all wish the ratings were sorted better in the roster/depth chat based on positional skills. For example: When we look at QBs, we want to see Throwing Power, Throwing Accuracy Short/Medium/Long, Throw on the Run, Play action, Awareness, Speed, Acceleration, Agility, Strength and then all of the "worthless ratings" to follow. Then, when we look at Running backs, we want to see a new list that starts with Carry, Trucking, Elusiveness, Stiff Arm, Spin move, Juke Move, Ball Carrier Vision, Catch, Route Running, Speed, Acceleration, Agility, etc.. [by the way, what's the deal with Speed/agility/acceleration?!? Acceleration should go before or after speed. Why is agility sandwiched between the two?] And so on and so forth for each position.

The problem is, EA has said they want to do this, but it takes time and effort they feel is better served improving "more important aspects of the game." That this item goes on the list of "things to do" and as the year goes on, things like this get cut. An example was when Ian talked about surprise onside kicks. Before EA said it would take too long and too much effort to put it in the game and to tune it... then he hammered out some simple code one Sat. and it found it's way into the game.

So, a we all have talked about this many times before and I don't enjoy sounding like a broken record, but sometimes I think it needs repeating. EA can and has done a good job in many areas of the game. EA has had many good ideas... but they also have a number of problems as well. I don't know... at some point it feels like I am rambling in my frustration, so I think I'll stop here and just say that I am looking forward to playing Madden 12 and the new franchise mode, but I am not holding my breath for a game that will blow my socks off.

[mjhyankees]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Your right call of duty is a yearly release and its in 2 different studios so basically each studio gets about 20 months of development time. Madden gets 8 or maybe 9 months of undivided development time each cycle. The other games you listed weren't on the quoted list. The quoted list is what I was commenting on. That's not piling on that's a personal foul for no Attention to detail. :P Did you notice that one of the games you personally mentioned, FIFA, well the guy who's direction and ideas that made that game great...uh where is he now? That's right Madden. You will see his influence for Madden 13.

I have to add that Assassins Creed Brother 2 (the only one I played) is nowhere near as complex as Madden...it's pretty linear actually....bad comparision in my book....LA NOire was far superior and Madden could learn something from them about attention to detail.

[kehlis]

A little off topic but since he was brought up I'm curious.

What happened to TheWatcher? Haven't seen him in awhile.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Your right call of duty is a yearly release and its in 2 different studios so basically each studio gets about 20 months of development time. Madden gets 8 or maybe 9 months of undivided development time each cycle. The other games you listed weren't on the quoted list. The quoted list is what I was commenting on. That's not piling on that's a personal foul for no Attention to detail. :P Did you notice that one of the games you personally mentioned, FIFA, well the guy who's direction and ideas that made that game great...uh where is he now? That's right Madden. You will see his influence for Madden 13.

The games I mentioned weren't on that list, but... so what? Your post alluded to the fact that Madden should be held to a different standard than those other hit titles that PG mentioned because it is made yearly. Well, there are other hit titles that are made yearly so I listed them as a counterpoint to your point.

Again, COD is made by 2 studios, as I mentioned, but again, so what? There is no law that prohibits EA or any other publisher from doing this so I don't think that COD should be exempt from the conversation because they take advantage of a smart strategy that EA has no desire to.

Lastly, as PG alluded to, Madden is a yearly title, but they DO NOT start from scratch every year, so what does it coming out every year have to do with anything? Are you saying that I should feel bad because 9mos isn't enough time to fix a game that they designed flawed in the first place?

Maybe others will, but not me. If you didn't make the game "wrong" in the first place, then 9mos would be more than enough time to add on to an already great product, like Ubi does with Assassins Creed.

To sum up. Madden is a yearly title that has been in development for 6yrs, using a significant amount of the same code every year. And many of the concepts for the game used today have been around since the PS1.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by mjhyankees

I have to add that Assassins Creed Brother 2 (the only one I played) is nowhere near as complex as Madden...it's pretty linear actually....bad comparision in my book....LA NOire was far superior and Madden could learn something from them about attention to detail.

I doubt that you, or 99.9% of the people that post on this site is qualified to make that statement. What you experience, as the user, has no bearing on what goes on under the hood. You may be right, but you could easily be wrong.

Regardless. It is still a good example of a well received game, both critically and by fans, that is developed on a yearly basis.

The yearly development cycle is thrown around too much anyway. They do not build the game from scratch every year, so why should the fact that it is developed on a yearly basis even enter into the discussion? You could say that it isn't enough time to fix what's wrong, and then I could turn around and say who made it "wrong" in the first place.

Try as I might, I can't make myself feel bad for their situation.