IDEAL WAY OF RATING PLAYERS

[macbranson]

There are quite a few threads about how we would like to see players rated. There are varying opinions, ranging from people who want more attributes to people who want less and others who are fine with the way it is now. I want to propose a way of doing player ratings that seriously condenses the current system into a system using far less ratings, but combines a few ratings to create an overall player rating.

Before I post my new system, I want to start it off by giving my opinion of NFL players. I believe there are five categories of players, give or take. They are Elite Players, Very Good players, Average players , Below Average and Poor. The starters consist of Average Players and above. So you will have some guys who are pretty much just filling a spot on the roster because they can play, even though they're not really great. Then you have players who are good. They perform at an above average level. These are the running backs who put up 4 yards per carry, break a few tackles and occasionally make the highlight reels. The wide receivers who put up around 1000 yards per season and are usually the #2 receiver. These are the players who will occasionally make the Pro Bowl, but not every season. Then you have the Elite Players. These are players who were Very Good players, but consistency and stellar stats eventually pushed them into the Elite category. This is what separates a Tony Romo from Tom Brady. Mainly consistency and the occasional season of spectacular stats. The Below Average and Poor Players are the guys who are 3rd and 4th string on the depth chart and usually only see playing time due to injuries.

The players overall rating would be a grade ranging from A+ down to F. This is how the grade system would translate to our current rating system. Note that the 100 overall rating does not exist in our current system, but theoretically could exist in my new system. The scale reflects a range of player ratings because, in my opinion, it's very difficult to give a player a precise numerical rating. Ratings, in my opinion, are an assessment of how well a player is expected to perform based on his past performances. Players progress by performing well on a consistent basis.
A+........97 - 100 elite
A ........96 - 94 elite
A-.........93 - 90 very good
B+.......89 - 87 very good
B.........86 - 84 very good/ average
B-..........83 - 80 very good/ average
C+........79 - 77 average
C..........76 - 74 average
C-.........73 - 70 average/ below average
D .........69 - 65 below average/ poor
F .........65 and under poor

So, here are the player attributes. I have really condensed them a lot. But DPP will combine with player attributes to affect their in-game performance.

First, we have the Physical Attribute set.
Speed, Agility, Acceleration, Vertical Leap and Strength.
Stamina 1 - 10
Injury 1 - 10
Recovery 1 -10
* Note--I had originally proposed using a 1-10 scale for these, but I would instead prefer to use actual numbers. Like 40 Yd dash time, bench press reps, etc.

Physical Attributes are pretty much a direct reflection of the player's combine numbers; their 40 time, cone drill, bench reps, etc. Note that Strength is only measured in bench reps and is not the same as the Power attribute that I have created. So a 200 lb player who has 25 reps would have the same strength rating as a 300 lb player who has 25 reps. Stamina, Injury and Recovery (ability to recover from injury) can't be precisely measured, but I would include them in Physical Attributes.

Next, we have the Skill Attribute set:

Quarterback

Arm strength
Short Throw Accuracy
Medium Throw Accuracy
Deep Throw Accuracy
Recognition
Power

Halfback/ Fullback

Run Power
Ball Carrier Vision
Pass Block technique
Run Block technique
Power
Hands

Tightend


Catching technique
Pass Block technique
Run Block technique
Power
Route Running
Hands

Wide Receiver

Route Running
Hands
Catching Technique
Release
Awareness
Power

Offensive Lineman

Run block technique
Pass block technique
Power
Recognition
Footwork

Defensive lineman

Block Shedding Technique
Power
Tackling
Play Recognition
Reaction

Linebacker

Play Recognition
Tackling
Power
Block Shedding Technique
Zone Coverage
Man Coverage

Defensive Back

Man Coverage
Zone Coverage
Play recognition
Tackling
Hands
Power

You'll notice that players only have six attributes, with the exception of linemen who have five. But, let me show you the new Performance Attributes (a modification of DPP) and then I'll explain.

Consistency......* through *****
Confidence.......* through *****
Competitiveness..............* through *****
Clutch.....* through *****

Leader......Yes, No


Ok, let me explain everything. I think the Physical Attributes are self-explanatory. The Skill Attributes just condenses all of the current attributes. So, for a running back, we take his physical speed and agility and combine that with his BCV and that translates to how he uses his physical abilities to elude tacklers. It eliminates Spin Move, Juke and Elusiveness because I think that there a bunch of fast, elusive backs in the league, but it's their ability to "see" the holes and use their skills that separates the Jamaal Charles types from the Reggie Bush types. It's pretty much the same with all Skill Attributes. Catching Technique represents a WRs ability to separate himself from the defender, locate the ball and position himself to make the catch. So Wes Welker and Calvin Johnson would both have a rating of 9 or 10, but they would use it differently. Megatron would use more of a boxing out or leaping over technique, while Welker would use agility to gain separation. But they're both effective at making the play. Hands represents a players ability to catch and hold onto the ball. It kind of encompasses Spectacular Catch and Catch In Traffic.

Power is a blanket rating. It translates into a player's ability to combine his Physical strength, his physical size and how he utilizes it. So, a position like Offensive Lineman, where all of them are big and strong, this isolates the players who know how to use their strength effectively to block. Run Power represents how hard a player runs. You can take ten different backs who all weight 220 and none of them will have the same run power. Some guys just have more leg strength and churn than others do. Even small running backs can have high Run Power.

Consistency and Confidence would have the same effects that they have now. Clutch has only been slightly modified. There are certain players who you want to get the ball to in clutch situations, others who are average and some who are just chokers. Instead of a simple yes or no, I've given it the same meter of one through five stars we currently have for Confidence and Consistency. Some players are below average and you actually don't want them on the field when you need a big play. These are players who choke or make bonehead plays. Tony Romo is a prime example of a choker. He would have one or two stars.

Competitiveness replaces the High Motor attribute and and also encompasses the Pursuit attribute we currently have. The higher Competitiveness is, the higher the player's Motor and how long they'll play until they stop.

The Leadership attribute would boost the confidence of the entire offensive or defensive unit by one point as long as that player is on the field.

You may notice that there is no Carrying attribute. That is because BCV includes it.

I think that my Skill Attributes when combined with Performance attributes cover all of the attributes that a player needs.

I would also have a Chemisty scale. This would cover QB/WR, O-line, D-Line, Linebackers and DBs. For every game any of these player combinations is intact, the meter will go up. Once the meter reaches 16 games, it will trigger the Chemistry Bonus and boost an attribute one point. For defense and QB, it will boost Play Recognition/ Recognition. For other offensive players, it would boost all Technique categories. The QB can only have one Chemistry boost even though he may have multiple receivers who earn a chemistry bonus. Also, in order for a receiver to get a chemistry boost, he has to have over 64+ receptions, an average of 4 receptions per game. You can't just have some scrub sitting in the bench getting a Chemistry boost for nothing.

Well, I'm kind of tired of typing, but I'm sure there are things that I failed to explain. But, I'm sure you guys are ready to point out all the flaws in my system and I'm definitely open to any criticism and will address them. Thanks for reading my really long post.

[Matthew25x]

I believe there should be a system like Head Coach, only expanded a little more.


Players attributes - A guy is typically going to have the same physical attributes regardless of where he goes.

Coaches, position coaches, coordinators - They can play a huge role in how a player performs. It should be reflected in the game somehow.

Offensive/defensive schemes/system - Like Head Coach, some guys could grasp your offense, and others couldn't. Perhaps some never learn, and their ratings like awareness, route running, and confidence stay low, or they slowly understand the system, and their ratings gradually rise.

Dynamic Player Performance - Great addition to Madden this year, no reason to stop using it. If anything make it even more dynamic next time.

Weekly preparation - practice, film study, etc. And other things that can effect how a player will perform on the field. Because failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

[NorrinRadd12]

First thing they have to do is slash the ratings down. Everyone in general is wayyyyy too high. They need to re-visit the Madden 2003 formula where a 65 ovr could be a starter, 70s was good, 80s was pro-bowl and 90s was living legend status. Now everyone and their brother is an 85+ and it waters down the game.

[mpbaseball22]

Quote: Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12

First thing they have to do is slash the ratings down. Everyone in general is wayyyyy too high. They need to re-visit the Madden 2003 formula where a 65 ovr could be a starter, 70s was good, 80s was pro-bowl and 90s was living legend status. Now everyone and their brother is an 85+ and it waters down the game.

I think the OVR is so high because the people who handle the rosters will raise useless stats to add to their OVR for some reason.. so a qb with throw power of 90 and acuracy of 90 will be 90 .. but someone elses OVR with the same throwing stats will be 80 because of their blocking, catching, pursuit, etc.

[Big FN Deal]

@macbranson, I want to give you credit for having the perseverance to type all of that. I think your suggestions could work but I want whatever is done numerically, to be hidden and operating under the hood.

Displayed numeric ratings quickly remind me that I am playing a video game and diminishes immersion, imo. I want all that translated into realistic jargon, displayed to the User, like with DPP. I don't mind letter grades for ratings but, like has been discussed in various threads, have them "perceived" based on team/coaching staff. I want things like Miami/their coaching staff perception rating of Wes Welker a C WR but New England/their coaching staff perception rating of him an A+.

Also, I want each teams playbook schemes, coaching staffs and chemistry to directly affect the actual hidden, under the hood ratings. So even if the Raiders correctly perceive an A+ QB in the draft that should be the next Payton Manning, he will never achieve it until the right pieces are in place in Oakland or he is traded/signed somewhere the pieces are right.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by macbranson

There are quite a few threads about how we would like to see players rated. There are varying opinions, ranging from people who want more attributes to people who want less and others who are fine with the way it is now. I want to propose a way of doing player ratings that seriously condenses the current system into a system using far less ratings, but combines a few ratings to create an overall player rating. Before I post my new system, I want to start it off by giving my opinion of NFL players. I believe there are five categories of players, give or take. They are Elite Players, Very Good players, Average players , Below Average and Poor. The starters consist of Average Players and above. So you will have some guys who are pretty much just filling a spot on the roster because they can play, even though they're not really great. Then you have players who are good. They perform at an above average level. These are the running backs who put up 4 yards per carry, break a few tackles and occasionally make the highlight reels. The wide receivers who put up around 1000 yards per season and are usually the #2 receiver. These are the players who will occasionally make the Pro Bowl, but not every season. Then you have the Elite Players. These are players who were Very Good players, but consistency and stellar stats eventually pushed them into the Elite category. This is what separates a Tony Romo from Tom Brady. Mainly consistency and the occasional season of spectacular stats. The Below Average and Poor Players are the guys who are 3rd and 4th string on the depth chart and usually only see playing time due to injuries. The players overall rating would be a grade ranging from A+ down to F. This is how the grade system would translate to our current rating system. Note that the 100 overall rating does not exist in our current system, but theoretically could exist in my new system. The scale reflects a range of player ratings because, in my opinion, it's very difficult to give a player a precise numerical rating. Ratings, in my opinion, are an assessment of how well a player is expected to perform based on his past performances. Players progress by performing well on a consistent basis. A+........97 - 100 elite A ........96 - 94 elite A-.........93 - 90 very good B+.......89 - 87 very good B.........86 - 84 very good/ average B-..........83 - 80 very good/ average C+........79 - 77 average C..........76 - 74 average C-.........73 - 70 average/ below average D .........69 - 65 below average/ poor F .........65 and under poor So, here are the player attributes. I have really condensed them a lot. But DPP will combine with player attributes to affect their in-game performance. First, we have the Physical Attribute set. Speed 1 - 10 Agility 1 - 10 Acceleration 1 - 10 Strength 1 -10 Vertical Leap 1 - 10 Stamina 1 - 10 Injury 1 - 10 Recovery 1 -10 Physical Attributes are pretty much a direct reflection of the player's combine numbers; their 40 time, cone drill, bench reps, etc. Note that Strength is only measured in bench reps and is not the same as the Power attribute that I have created. So a 200 lb player who has 25 reps would have the same strength rating as a 300 lb player who has 25 reps. Stamina, Injury and Recovery (ability to recover from injury) can't be precisely measured, but I would include them in Physical Attributes. Next, we have the Skill Attribute set: Quarterback Arm strength Short Throw Accuracy Medium Throw Accuracy Deep Throw Accuracy Recognition Power Halfback/ Fullback Run Power Ball Carrier Vision Pass Block technique Run Block technique Power Hands Tightend Catching technique Pass Block technique Run Block technique Power Route Running Hands Wide Receiver Route Running Hands Catching Technique Release Awareness Power Offensive Lineman Run block technique Pass block technique Power Recognition Footwork Defensive lineman Block Shedding Technique Power Tackling Play Recognition Reaction Linebacker Play Recognition Tackling Power Block Shedding Technique Zone Coverage Man Coverage Defensive Back Man Coverage Zone Coverage Play recognition Tackling Hands Power You'll notice that players only have six attributes, with the exception of linemen who have five. But, let me show you the new Performance Attributes (a modification of DPP) and then I'll explain. Consistency......* through ***** Confidence.......* through ***** Clutch.........Low, Average, High Aggression.....Low, Average, Ideal, Over Leader......Yes, No Ok, let me explain everything. I think the Physical Attributes are self-explanatory. The Skill Attributes just condenses all of the current attributes. So, for a running back, we take his physical speed and agility and combine that with his BCV and that translates to how he uses his physical abilities to elude tacklers. It eliminates Spin Move, Juke and Elusiveness because I think that there a bunch of fast, elusive backs in the league, but it's their ability to "see" the holes and use their skills that separates the Jamaal Charles types from the Reggie Bush types. It's pretty much the same with all Skill Attributes. Catching Technique represents a WRs ability to separate himself from the defender, locate the ball and position himself to make the catch. So Wes Welker and Calvin Johnson would both have a rating of 9 or 10, but they would use it differently. Megatron would use more of a boxing out or leaping over technique, while Welker would use agility to gain separation. But they're both effective at making the play. Hands represents a players ability to catch and hold onto the ball. It kind of encompasses Spectacular Catch and Catch In Traffic. Power is a blanket rating. It translates into a player's ability to combine his Physical strength, his physical size and how he utilizes it. So, a position like Offensive Lineman, where all of them are big and strong, this isolates the players who know how to use their strength effectively to block. Run Power represents how hard a player runs. You can take ten different backs who all weight 220 and none of them will have the same run power. Some guys just have more leg strength and churn than others do. Even small running backs can have high Run Power. Consistency and Confidence would have the same effects that they have now. Clutch has only been slightly modified. There are certain players who you want to get the ball to in clutch situations, others who are average and some who are just chokers. Instead of a simple yes or no, I've created a third option to isolate the players who you do NOT want to have the ball in a clutch situation. Tony Romo is a good example. Aggression replaces the High Motor attribute and and also encompasses the Pursuit attribute we currently have. You have the players who take plays off, players who are pretty much average and players who just do not stop playing until they hear a whistle blow. Ideal Aggression translates to a high motor. Over Aggression represents the players who are so fired up that they start doing stupid things like getting late hits, starting fights, hits out of bounds or to the head. Over aggressive players on defense will go for picks when they really shouldn't or wide receivers will be so anxious to turn and run that they drop passes. The Leadership attribute would boost the confidence of the entire offensive or defensive unit by one point as long as that player is on the field. You may notice that there is no Carrying attribute. That is because BCV includes it. I think that my Skill Attributes when combined with Performance attributes cover all of the attributes that a player needs. I would also have a Chemisty scale. This would cover QB/WR, O-line, D-Line, Linebackers and DBs. For every game any of these player combinations is intact, the meter will go up. Once the meter reaches 16 games, it will trigger the Chemistry Bonus and boost an attribute one point. For defense and QB, it will boost Play Recognition/ Recognition. For other offensive players, it would boost all Technique categories. The QB can only have one Chemistry boost even though he may have multiple receivers who earn a chemistry bonus. Also, in order for a receiver to get a chemistry boost, he has to have over 64+ receptions, an average of 4 receptions per game. You can't just have some scrub sitting in the bench getting a Chemistry boost for nothing. Well, I'm kind of tired of typing, but I'm sure there are things that I failed to explain. But, I'm sure you guys are ready to point out all the flaws in my system and I'm definitely open to any criticism and will address them. Thanks for reading my really long post.

Overall good stuff. Two things of note:

Your basis for rating STR is similar to how I rate players on FBGratings except I do not use the Bench Press to determine the STR of a player. However, having a UNIVERSAL benchmark for a player's STR is wonderful! We currently have so many other ratings that determine how STR is used (TRK, RBK, PBK, PMV, PRS) that the STR rating can be universal. The only issue I see is that the Bench only measures upper body muscular endurance and strength. However, it serves well for using a standard, measurable, test.

The other thing I have is the CAR rating being tied into BCV. Even scouts know to differentiate the two categories as being entirely separate. Case in point - Tiki Barber and Ahman Green - two backs that had great vision for the open lane to run through, but questionable ball carrying. There may be a correlation between CAR and BCV, as both may be required to be a great RB, but it is not certain that there is causality between the two - ie: BCV makes you a better CAR or vice vs. Just something to consider.

[schnaidt1]

Quote: Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12

First thing they have to do is slash the ratings down. Everyone in general is wayyyyy too high. They need to re-visit the Madden 2003 formula where a 65 ovr could be a starter, 70s was good, 80s was pro-bowl and 90s was living legend status. Now everyone and their brother is an 85+ and it waters down the game.

i could not agree more...in the process of re rating the rosters for the game now...

why dont you all click over and take a looksie! lol

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ad-roster.html

[Obnoxious]

The only thing I hated was Clay Matthews. Just because he had a FF in the Super Bowl doesn't make him 99.

I mean yeah he was 4th in the league with sacks but any decent OLB in a 3-4 D can get 13 sacks. He barely had over 50 tackles and only 1 interception.

I wouldn't even put him above 90.

C'mon man.